How to tell family and friends about your diet?

[Suiren]

I usually try not to talk about it. But sometimes it is just hard to avoid. So I am thinking I need a good way of explaining to friends and family why I am eating this way.
Two careful attempts failed. When I told my mother about benefits of raw meat she got VERY upset, saying that I am risking getting colon cancer.
When I told friends I started eating this way for health reasons, and why grains are bad, or cooked foods, they said I can not simply say that one diet is better than another.
They feel a balanced standard diet is just as good and that there is not enough proof for any diet to be superior. Grains, according to them, simply don't "fit" into the raw paleo diet philosophy and concept.

The fact that I got rid of 3 diseases in a short time (Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, Pituitary Tumor, Pre Cervical Cancer CIN3), does not seem surprising to anyone.

Maybe I used the wrong approach when I told them, but I mean what other good reasons can I possibly give? Its not like I eat this way simply for the fun of it....

How have you told others? I am interested to hear. Do you have any suggestions? I am worried how my family will react once my son will start eating solids...raw paleo solids.  They keep wanting to feed him Sausage and Cookies (I was raised on Cookies, Cake, Coffee, Wurst, Bread and Tea I think )

[Dorothy]

Short and sweet is usually best without too much educating unless they want you to.

"I did a lot of research and came up with the best diet to heal myself and I have to stick with it for my health."

As for your son - I will let others advise you. That's going to be a toughy with pushy well-meaning parents. But I bet it will have to be something like, "This is my child and I've decided to feed him the diet that I have researched extensively and that others I know and respect have had the best results with for their children. I don't expect you to change your diet - but I do expect you to respect my choices as a parent"

The important thing is to keep in mind your goal. Mine is always that people just let me be respecting my choices and NOT to convince them to eat differently. If they are open-minded they will come to you. If they are SMART they will come to you. Otherwise - it just makes things more difficult on everyone if you try to hard is my experience. Low key is the key.

[goodsamaritan]

With practice and time and experience you get better at it.
Over the years you will markedly look better and younger than them and people will notice your glow of health.
Sometimes you just need to say you are on raw food for health.
They assume raw vegan and usually raw vegan is seen as healthy.
Then later for the ones who are curious, say you eat raw animal food too.

It took me a few months and curing a couple of people they know hands on for people to realize that im on to something.

My kids do have special needs, paleo diet with rice at the minimum.
Plus allergic to chicken and nightshades.
We put them on raw paleo when sick.
Relatives have seen it work.

[Dorothy]

To what GS said add - at least here in America - that no matter how good you look and how many diseases of how many people are cured - you will still get grief because we are taught to ignore what is in front of our faces AND what we don't want to believe. That's why it's no use trying to convince anyone of anything. Either they can think and perceive or they can't.

[cherimoya_kid]

It took me a few months and curing a couple of people they know hands on for people to realize that im on to something.

Sometimes I'm almost jealous of how easy you have it regarding healing people.

These are people who are usually much more open to raw food than Americans.

You are generally more wealthy and better-educated than they are.

And you have easy access to some of the best-quality fresh raw animal and plant foods in the world.

None of that is true with me, when I'm trying to heal people.  You have all these awesome stories of convincing people to eat better, and healing them miraculously.

I have nothing but stories I read online. ROFL

[joej627]

Lol i second American's not being the easiest to change our programming =)  Anyway, I think what i did was start with things like raw butter, raw dairy, raw eggs.  Those things are not nearly as "culturally taboo."  Raw milk is catching on in a lot of places and people put raw eggs in smoothies a lot.  My parents (especially dad) was a little hesitant as they grew up basically with pasteurization and the sterilization of things, starts of fast food, antibiotics, etc.  You guys ever heard of Vince Gironda?  He was a bodybuilder/health guru back awhile.  Trained Arnold and others.  He advocated lots of raw eggs and rare meats, raw milk, and liver. 

I'm a little more hesitant about the things like raw liver, bone marrow, organ meats, etc.  I find that people are a LOT more open if you talk about "rare" meats.  At this point, i very lightly cook some meats anyway.  It is best for my body.  Also, remember things like "sushi sashimi" and "steak tartare," etc.  The "culturally acceptable" foods.

Obviously there is a balance to be found here.  You don't want to lie to the world and hide who you are, but you don't want to be an outcast either.  I think in the coming years as people are learning more and more about this, the more educated people will catch on and we will be at the forefront of nutrition.  Hope that helps.

-Joe

[Inger]

I never had a problem here. I do not know why many seems to have?  I always was very open with what I eat. But I do not push it on anyone and I am not religiously raw eather. To me other things are more important than to eat 100% raw everything (if you have not a serious illness to cure..). Like no grains, that your food is as wild as it gets.. a lot of wilcaught fish.. eating locally.. eating the whole animal.. seasonal living and eating.. sunshine.. such stuff.
They are so logical to me and I believe so wholeheartedly in it that people maybe sense it and have to agree.. and I have lots  a lot of energy and am very healthy so maybe that speaks its own language too?
Not that people follow it.. most have not the discipline to do so or the will. But I get lot of respect and I am very thankful for that. I never needed to be ashamed for my eating habits. I do am careful at times if needed, and do not offend people and always try to be polite and also respect their views.
If you want, you are always able to sense what behavior is appropriate. Just listen to your heart...
I like people a lot. Different people. I enjoy them. Maybe they sense it?

[Suiren]

Dorothy

Thank you, those examples are worded very good. You are right about what you are saying.  Weirdly I still get certain reactions if I don't try convince anyone to eat my way. I simply said I believe in the benefits and that it is healthier. I guess healthier was the wrong word, but even regarding the benefits some will say that there are not any real added benefits.
I think they would be okay if I said "I just want to eat this way because I think its fun." 

goodsamaritan

Many people here do not think raw vegan is healthy  . I tried to argue with the benefits of uncooked foods, which was acknowledged to some point, but it did not change their view that a standard diet can be just as good..*shrug*
I thought people acknowledge the fact that certain diets are healthier.

I also brought up stories of other people that had been healed, but I was told you can't use this to "prove a theory".
Although I personally believe it is the only true thing that can back up a study.
If I would see you healing people left and right where you live, I would eventually come to believe you. But maybe thats just me.

Dorothy, joej627

Not just Americans, I feel some Germans are very convinced of what they do know, without reading or researching other things (my parents, perfect example), and there is just no way to make them understand. My parents consider themselves very educated people, and because of that, they assume that I am less educated, no matter how much I have researched. They are always right, I am always wrong.
Plus, so many people don't believe internet research is valid in any way. They rather believe doctors, nutritionists...anyone that has a basic degree. Degrees matter...

You don't want to lie to the world and hide who you are, but you don't want to be an outcast either.  I think in the coming years as people are learning more and more about this, the more educated people will catch on and we will be at the forefront of nutrition. 

Yes, there needs to be a middle ground. I certainly do hope more will consider this type of diet in the future.

Inger
Maybe I do need a more positive attitude. Even without my diet choices, I already feel like an outcast because I don't like the same things others like.
I don't look the same way, I don't listen to their music, I don't share their hobbies, and I raise my son much different than most bottle feeding, sleep training, letting the baby cry it out parents.
So I feel often people are weirded out by me first, then my diet.

[Dorothy]

Dorothy

Thank you, those examples are worded very good. You are right about what you are saying.  Weirdly I still get certain reactions if I don't try convince anyone to eat my way. I simply said I believe in the benefits and that it is healthier. I guess healthier was the wrong word, but even regarding the benefits some will say that there are not any real added benefits.
I think they would be okay if I said "I just want to eat this way because I think its fun." 


Dorothy, joej627

Not just Americans, I feel some Germans are very convinced of what they do know, without reading or researching other things (my parents, perfect example), and there is just no way to make them understand. My parents consider themselves very educated people, and because of that, they assume that I am less educated, no matter how much I have researched. They are always right, I am always wrong.
Plus, so many people don't believe internet research is valid in any way. They rather believe doctors, nutritionists...anyone that has a basic degree. Degrees matter...
Yes, there needs to be a middle ground. I certainly do hope more will consider this type of diet in the future.

Inger
Maybe I do need a more positive attitude. Even without my diet choices, I already feel like an outcast because I don't like the same things others like.
I don't look the same way, I don't listen to their music, I don't share their hobbies, and I raise my son much different than most bottle feeding, sleep training, letting the baby cry it out parents.
So I feel often people are weirded out by me first, then my diet.

The problem Suiren I think is that you said that your diet was healthier which implies that it is better than other people's diets for them. Notice how carefully worded what I wrote was to only to be talking about myself, my own health and my own choices. Nothing is implying that I think anyone else should change their diet to what mine is if they want to be healthier. You are saying that there are general benefits which implies that others would benefit from it too and they "should" be doing it.  When you say that you did the research into what you thought was best for your own health - that's just you. If you say you have decided what you feel is the way you want to raise your own son - that's your right. You don't have to defend it! You are allowed to choose how to raise/feed yourself and your child. If someone disagrees with what I said then they are invalidating my own choices for myself and I call them on that.

But what happens (just like Inger described) is as soon as you drop the implied commands and subliminal message that comes from your own judgment that what you are doing is better - people just don't question you.

Think about this a moment. What you KNOW is that so far this diet has been good for YOU and makes sense to you. There are no studies, there's no proof that this diet is what is healthier or beneficial for others a plain physical level even. Then I take it one step further and I think about is is in bigger terms...  that I don't know what that person's soul path is and if sickness is not a necessary teacher for them and therefore the diet would not be truly beneficial.

Perhaps because others are not accepting you, you are not accepting them ... or is it vice versa? But when you can step back and accept others for their own decisions no matter how poor you think they are... then they just simply don't make stink about what you decide - they respect it.

At least that is what I have discovered over the years with all my crazy diet "arrangements".

[svrn]

I am at the point where I do not try to convince anyone of anything whether its politics or especially food. People often get extremely upset when you question their eating habits and I have had people, (especially vegans) get very verbally violent with me for debating them. Its just not worth it arguing with people about anything, especially food. When you are arguing with someone you are both trying to convince each other of your own view and it is extremely rare for anyone involved to admit they are wrong.
Iv been debating people about politics for years with little problem (always been a certain level of civility, except with a few people who are almost always marxists) but once I started talking to them about food people take it so personally that its surprising and kind of scary sometimes so now I only talk to people about food or politics when they are interested. I try very hard not to get sucked into arguing but nobody is pefect and I do get sucked in once in a while. It never ends well.

Just do what works for you and screw everyone else. Live your own life and be thankful you have found raw foods. I feel pity for those who deny the benefits of raw animal products but the level of hatred and bitterness I get for trying to help people makes it no longer worth attempting to help people unless they are actively seeking it from me.

[GrizzlyEater]

My advice is not to worry about what other people think.  I know this can be hard to do with family.  You know what is best for you and your son's health, apparently none of your family or friends do.  Seriously, just keep doing what you're doing and eventually your friends and family will come around. 

[jessica]

"i eat all my meats raw"

[Dorothy]

I have a question. Are you going to be leaving your son with your parents for periods of time with them caring for him? Do you trust your parents to follow your instructions when it comes to your son?

I know grandparents that are absolute horrors and will force feed their grandchildren whatever they want no matter what the parents say and make the kids sick. Would this be your situation? Do you feel like you need to convince them for the sake of your son that they will be caring for?

[Dorothy]

A note should be placed here that generally it's not a good idea to tell anyone that isn't in a "need to know" status how you feed your children. You risk in the US them calling Child Protective Services and having your children taken away from you. This has happened to raw vegans in the past - can you imagine how easy it would be for them to make a case against you when you are feeding raw meat to children in this country!?

[Alive]

"i eat all my meats raw"

I like that - Keep it simple.

I said to a large pear shaped school mom that her son would enjoy tonights sleep over at my place because he would play fall out new vegas and eat as much meat as he wanted.
Her - he needs to eat other things also.
Me - But hunter gatherers could live on only meat... oh and I eat my meat raw <<Should I have kept quiet?>>
Her - (with authority)  that meat was contaminated with dangerous bacteria
Me - Um ...I'm thinking about the good points not the bad ones... <<Need improvement here?>>

[jessica]

you should have stopped at the hunter gatherers and used more basic and "scientific" points, easier to digest due to enzymes, more available nutrients, how cooking denatures fats and also i like to point out that some of the most delicious foods that are reserved for "higher society" are raw, oysters, roe, sashimi, tartare....but really i wouldnt feed someone elses kid raw meat, i would however feed them some super delicious lightly cooked meats and lots of veggies, id probably feed them egg yolks and raw butter too

[Dorothy]

Totally with Jessica on this one - I would NEVER feed someone else's kids raw meats because God-forbid they get some bird flu or something that is totally unrelated - you could end up sued or worse.

When it comes to kids, again, it's REALLY important to keep raw meat eating quiet. That mother could report you to children's protective services.

It's just not worth it! At the least keep it at we had Japanese food if you want to serve the sashimi. It's just too dangerous.

[Alive]

Its only me that eats meat raw    my kids and their friends have their meat, fish & eggs cooked (though they don't do cooked veges, just have some raw cellery, carrots, broccoli..)

Today the school had an end of term meal, and some kids asked me if it was true I ate raw meat and rotten meat - they were cool about it.

I told the ethical vegetarian mum and she said she had heard raw paleo gave people lots of energy.

So no social backlash yet...

[Suiren]

alive

I feel in English speaking countries Raw Paleo and Paleo is much more know, so it will at least be accepted as some sort of diet.

Dorothy

The problem Suiren I think is that you said that your diet was healthier which implies that it is better than other people's diets for them. Notice how carefully worded what I wrote was to only to be talking about myself, my own health and my own choices.

Yes, I do need to choose my words more carefully. I said that most of us are not eating and ideal diet, which basically implies RP is healthier.

I have a question. Are you going to be leaving your son with your parents for periods of time with them caring for him? Do you trust your parents to follow your instructions when it comes to your son?

I know grandparents that are absolute horrors and will force feed their grandchildren whatever they want no matter what the parents say and make the kids sick. Would this be your situation? Do you feel like you need to convince them for the sake of your son that they will be caring for?

Well, we were hoping to go out again some time in the future, but leaving my son with my parents is not an option for many reasons. I think my mom might try to feed him the cooked baby food from the glas or even cereal to see if he really can not eat solids.
They are very concerned about him not wanting solids yet.
He does also not take bottles, I have never given him bottles...but my family is eager to try tea and juice.
My mother raised me very differently than I raise him.

Child protective services
That is very scary. I wonder if this is really legal? Maybe I should not tell anyone at all then? But it is hard to hide. We will have to avoid Kindergarten and Public School.
Home Schooling is not legal here *sigh*.

[Dorothy]

That's what I thought Suiren - you will have to convince your parents because you don't want them to try to sneak things into your son. That's really a tough situation. By the time he's eating I bet you will figure out how to convince them. I bet if you give them lots of studies that folks like Tyler have accumulated that might help?

I don't know if they have Child Protective Services in your country. That's a USA thing. So don't worry until it comes to that.

Also, there are ways to get past it without setting off alarms. If a child has fruit or salads for lunch at school that is socially acceptable here. Instruct your child to use the word "rare" instead of "raw" when it comes to meat that he eats at home. If you want to give your child some meat to take to school so as not to look like a raw vegan which also can be construed as abuse just give him some cold smoked salmon or prosciutto or beef jerkey you make yourself in a dehydrator.

There are a thousand ways around it - just be careful. And - if you EVER go a hospital whatever you do don't tell a doctor that you feed your kid raw meat unless you think the raw meat created the problem and your child's life is in danger.

Make it into a subtle difference in general when talking to people. Oh - we like our meat rare in our house and prefer our veggies and fruit uncooked. It's our preference. That kind of thing. That's what I would do. The US is now certifiably insane when it comes to other people interfering in strangers lives, reporting neighbors to the authorities, thinking that they know what is best for you and your kid and suing anyone they can. At least this country has gone nuts, so just use some common sense when talking to others when a child is involved.

And Alive - what you are doing saying that you eat raw meat is great as long as you don't want to transfer your kids to it and then they tell all the other kids that their Dad who eats raw meat is now giving it to them. That's where it could get sticky.

The healthiest things now are considered dangerous. It's a topsy turvy world and if we are going to be successful we need to adapt and work around it until slowly we can keep the good stuff going until it changes.

I'm not saying to worry - or keep your kids out of school if you want them to go to school - I'm just saying to remember how frightened other people have been trained to be and not to push them too  hard. We need to poke into other people's way of thinking gently to not be reacted against with violence.

We are a tiny minority at this point. People that don't eat well can be so easily frightened.

[TylerDurden]

Dorothy has a partial point. The Child Protection Social Services can be very dangerous. The point re raw vegan families being targetted is invalid, however. The children in question were also severely malnourished, and raw vegan children tend to need key nutrients only found in animal foods so that they can grow properly, which adults who convert to raw veganism do not necessarily need for a few years. So it wasn't the raw veganism per se that got the social security people worried, but the malnourishment/nutritional deficiencies of the children.

I know one or two US women who raised their children on the Primal Diet whose sicko husbands used this against them in an attempt to gain custody of their kids. Both cases failed, but I fear this was mainly because the women were the ones feeding their children raw meat and family court cases are overwhelmingly in favour of wives, not husbands. Still, in most cases, as long as the child is obviously healthy, the social workers can't get at them.

There is only one exception to this, the UK:-  there was a recent case where a female member of the English Defence League, with a bit of a violent history of physical attacks during political protests, was actually taken to court by the Social Services in her area(Durham?) with these evil bastards claiming that her affiliation to her political party harmed her children(an unborn one and 3-4(?) others already born), despite the fact that she had never harmed her children at all. The reason for this was that the twisted Labour Party had forced through a series of laws giving financial rewards to local councils for adopting more babies. The result was that such councils would target vulnerable women with low incomes, and preferably uneducated ones, and make up excuses in order to force the adoption of their children. Fortunately, in this one case, an MP sided with the mother, pointing out that affiliation with a political party was not a crime in itself, outside of Communist Russia and the like, and that this was a grievous betrayal of her human rights. So be dead quiet about raw diets in the UK, but don't worry re other countries as long as the children are healthy.

[Dorothy]

The problem is exactly as you say Tyler - if the children are healthy, if you have enough food in your home, if you don't have anything that can be construed as insufficient or dangerous. If your kid should develop something wrong that has nothing to do with what you are feeding him/her - the diet you are feeding the child could be blamed. The children that were taken from the raw vegans was not unhealthy - there was an accident and the parents stupidly told the doctor the diet they were giving the child. When a doctor says there is failure to thrive and something is being done that is not "normal" - that's all it takes whether it's true or not. Believe me - doctors and nurses will make things up and what they say often counts more than what the accused parent has to say.

Your child might be thriving now, but might not always be. What if the child is given junk food by a well-meaning person and projectile vomits and is brought to the emergency room - say with the cub scouts. It's really best if that cub scout leader wasn't able to say to the doctor that it was because the kids parents are feeding him/her raw meat.

All I'm saying is that it only makes sense to be careful about children in any modern culture with government agencies that can confiscate your children on you. When it comes to myself as an adult however - I tell everyone and anyone what I eat and why and I don't give a hoot if they judge me or not. If they are intelligent they will want to know more. If they are stupid, what difference does it make? I work for myself so that part is easy. I don't have to worry about a boss firing me because of it or anything like that. Maybe because I'm so casual about it and I'm not trying to convince anyone, no one seems to judge me badly or give me a hard time. They are usually just really interested because it's unusual and they want to know more. 

[TylerDurden]

Hmm, all the cases where I read about  in the media re raw vegan children being taken into custody were ones in which the children were indeed malnourished. Do you have an unbiased'(ie non-raw vegan) article about that one case you mentioned?

[Dorothy]

Hmm, all the cases where I read about  in the media re raw vegan children being taken into custody were ones in which the children were indeed malnourished. Do you have an unbiased'(ie non-raw vegan) article about that one case you mentioned?

No - no articles, only personal testimony. But - it's not the point. The point is that most of the world believes that feeding your children raw meat would amount to abuse because it's so "dangerous". Ingesting raw animal products is taboo in our society and has the force of the medical establishment and the legal system behind it. It's just something to keep in mind when telling people about our diets I think.

[Suiren]

I'm torn now. I never thought of this diet possibly being illegal activity when fed to my son.

I can imagine that there can be cases where you could twist facts and put blame on the parents and use the raw diet as an argument against them.

We don't really want to do Kindergarten, because we fear it will not be a good environment for him. He might be given different foods, they could cause reactions and that could cause other problems. I would rather arrange play dates.

School...don't know. Sure there is benefits, but also so many downsides. They learn useless things among propaganda.

Tyler
That is a scary case. I am unsure about the German government, and how they handle certain cases. They seem rather mild sometimes, but you just can't be sure. There is the German Jugendamt, which resembles child protective services.