I love salt

[svrn]

I understand your connection and am more than willing to experiment, though I don't have access to grass-fed raw milk year round and don't really see an option for that, and I really don't see my farmer getting me blood frequently, but I asked and we will discuss it.

What am I supposed to drink?

Isn't water supposed to be the thing that makes life possible? It just seems like I'm asking for health issues without it. My throat gets dry, I can't think straight, my eyes are dry and burn.... do I call that detox? How is it that so many long living people seem to do two things: eat less and drink more water.

i regularly go weeks and months without a drop of water. What you need to realize is that all raw food is at least 70 percent water no matter what it is. The water in raw foods is bioactive and is already bound and occupied and structured. Plain water oesnt have this and all water seeks this.  Water is a solvent just like all solvents, it wants to take and not give. Itis the olvent that rains down upon the rocks and breaks them down into minerals that plants can utilize.

I want you to do an experiment which will be very useful in explaining to you what water does inside the body. Take any mechanical device the that you need to oil regularly and use water instead of the lubricant. I think you will find that the machine will start to break down very quickly. The same happens in your body, you need oil and fats to lubricate the gears inside your body, water will destroy those gears and cause rust (it breaks it down just like it breaks down the minerals in the rocks).

Water wants to take things into itself, thats why tea works, thats why when you put anything in water, the water starts to take on the properties of whatever you put in there. It oes the same thing in your body, it takes it does not give. Thats why it dilutes your enzymes causes you to lose your hunger, this is not good.

Do you get those symptoms you described from raw milk? It seems like you dont have access to it. Yes I believe everyone who starts drinking raw milk has an initial detox period, detox is never fun but always necessary and you will always feel better after than you did before the detox started.

also a problem with people digesting milk is that they jump right in. You dont jump right into a 200 pound bench press on your first try you will surely hurt yourself. Does this mean the bench press is bad? No it means you havent used those muscles in your life so your body used your energy for other things. Now that your body sees it would be useful for it to build that muscle up it now does that. Theres nothing wrong with that.

You need to build up to drinking lots of milk. My protocol for beginning milk consumption is to start with no fresh milk. Only drink small amounts of kefir and eat small amounts of raw cheease and build up. Once you have no problem with this start introducing small amounts of fresh milk. Then build up from there. THis supplies your body with the proper bacteria for dairy digestion and helps your body start producing the proper enzymes. Other than just push through any detox you have and if theres still problems blend your milk with raw honey and let it sit till its warm and starts to thicken, very few people have problems drinking it this way.

Tell me or pm me where you live and ill find you a raw dairy source.

[svrn]

dairy is in fact "paleo" as we wouldnt be able to get out of paleo without it and ill present the proof in a seperate thread once I have time. The anti raw dairy lobby is quite strong and loves to push the dairy isnt paleo myth as well using studies with powdered milk and isolated nutrients to prove their lies. I wouldnt blame anyone for falling for their propoganda.

and lol at being repulsed by blood. u go around talking about how animals do this and that and how you need to be just like them yet theres isnt one carnivore for whom blood is not a staple of their diet.

I love blood and it makes me feel like superman. I only wish I could get it.

[Iguana]

dairy is in fact "paleo" as we wouldnt be able to get out of paleo without it

I struggle to find out what this sentence could mean.

About blood as a normal drink for humans, I’m not sure. It seems humans are somewhere in-between pure carnivores and scavengers, the former feeding on fresh meat / blood and the latter preferring gamy, dry and high meat. Before having developed hunting techniques, our far ancestors certainly fed on the bone marrow and somewhat dry flesh left by carnivores. That could be why we generally prefer dry / high meat to fresh meat.

[van]

I agree with Iguana, again.  how bout that.   As scavengers 'we' didn't get much of the blood.  And to think that a hunting party would be able or willing to collect the blood of a killed animal ( most animals bleed to death as they try to get away from being shot/arrow/spear..) for the rest of the tribe back 'home'.  Seems a little far fetched that there would be enough to go around so that water would not be needed.  SVRN I suspect you're very excited about your milk feeding and it does well for you and you're totally sold and not needing water.  I didn't need much when I drank a half gallon a day of my goat's milk.  But let's see what happens in some time.  Give it five years, ten years ( as I did ) and them may I suggest you tell people not to drink water and to substitute with blood and milk.     

   And as to the 'understanding' of what water is, structured, organic....   I can promise you, there are as many different opinions as any hot topic. And one's position usually has to do with what wants to believe in the moment or what aligns with one's current diet choices and believes.
 

[TylerDurden]

Svrn, the idiotic notion that dairy is "palaeo" is overdoing it.  Granted, this is the hot topics forum, but, even so, when one says something as outrageously wrong as this one needs to back it up with lots of scientific data etc. And expect to be ridiculed with tons of  scientific evidence debunking your claims.

[cherimoya_kid]

when did I say all salts are cooked? another irrelevant comment from someone quoting me.

i really hope that people would refrain from quoting when their comment has nothing to do with the quote as those reading this with lower critical thinking skills may be harmed by believing that such responses were a valid counterpoint and thus basing their diets on such things.

You compared salt to cooked food, but they are not equivalent.  Salt is a naturally-occurring substance, and many animals are attracted to natural aboveground mineral deposits, including "salt licks".   That means that it is quite possible for a living thing to crave salt as part of its natural instinct. Salt creates a very strong taste change, like many raw foods do.  You're not making a strong case.

[Dr. D]

I'm from north central Washington. Near chelan, WA.

What's that type of argument called, that we have going on here? Its not circular, but rather both sides can be right based on what their perspective sees. Arguing if the glass is half full or half empty when it is very close to the same.

Putting dairy, salt, water, and other things into your diet may cause detox, or your body may be adapting to a less preferred fuel. Its tough to argue because some come out the other end feeling better and some never do, like with ZC and proponents for that lifestyle. They would argue you're detoxing sugar whereas the other side argues your body is trying to adapt to something else that remains to be proven more or less optimal.

Isn't there a term for that type of argument?

[jessica]

pointless? rhetorical?

[svrn]

I struggle to find out what this sentence could mean.

About blood as a normal drink for humans, I’m not sure. It seems humans are somewhere in-between pure carnivores and scavengers, the former feeding on fresh meat / blood and the latter preferring gamy, dry and high meat. Before having developed hunting techniques, our far ancestors certainly fed on the bone marrow and somewhat dry flesh left by carnivores. That could be why we generally prefer dry / high meat to fresh meat.

speak for yourself, I prefer blood.

[svrn]

Svrn, the idiotic notion that dairy is "palaeo" is overdoing it.  Granted, this is the hot topics forum, but, even so, when one says something as outrageously wrong as this one needs to back it up with lots of scientific data etc. And expect to be ridiculed with tons of  scientific evidence debunking your claims.

I have evidence, I just dont want to waste time posting it all here when im going to make a seperate thread for it anyway. Iv posted some data about it before if u want to find it but ill do a more in depth posting later.

[svrn]

I struggle to find out what this sentence could mean.

About blood as a normal drink for humans, I’m not sure. It seems humans are somewhere in-between pure carnivores and scavengers, the former feeding on fresh meat / blood and the latter preferring gamy, dry and high meat. Before having developed hunting techniques, our far ancestors certainly fed on the bone marrow and somewhat dry flesh left by carnivores. That could be why we generally prefer dry / high meat to fresh meat.

we are carnivores. Eating anything more than one fruit a day is always damaging to me, I feel better with none at all actually and have been having my smoothies without fruit at all for the past few months and am feeling much better.

I dont understand why you think animals can get enough blood from from their prey but humans cant. I just dont see the logic in that.

I suppose you havent heard the stories about amerinds chasing down game on foot and killing it with a knife. Someone on this forum i dont remember who (im pretty sure it was sully) even related a story about choking a deer to death. I dont understand how that is any different from any other carnivore killing an animal.

also the new age notion of both sides are right is complete religious hogwash. One side is definitly right. We do not get to choose reality.

also the concept of availability meaning we ate something is also bullshit. I know of one tribe in th phillipines that is surrounded by fruit but eats nothing but raw fish and raw coconut, thats it. For the masaai fruit was available but until the drought occured it was completely illegal in their tribe to eat fruit. They knew of the dangers.

either way im completely sure that the notion that blood isnt human food is rubbish. Seems like you are just making excuses for your inability to drink blood. DOnt you slaughter your own animals? I know sabertooth gets plenty of blood from the animals he kills.

[cherimoya_kid]

You have much learning to do, svrn.

[svrn]

than you for such a wise comment. I have learned so much from it.

[Ioanna]

svrn, omg, why are you so angry??? as exciting as a conversation re salt can be... 

i used to do open water swimming. i've swallowed plenty of salt water accidentally. i didn't like it. i didn't get sick. my dog has come with me to the beach and she has had some of the water to drink. i don't think she like it either. she didn't get sick.

[svrn]

at makes you think I am angry? That I address every single point made against me and attempt to do it in a precise manner that leaves nothing unanswered?

if you didnt get sick it means you didnt swallow enough of the poison.

am I angry because nobody can correctly answer these two questions which I have been posing for pages thus making me constantly have to repeat myself?

1) what other raw food causes death when you ingest too much of it. (the only answers I seem to have so far are water which I have always said is dangerous and salt water which I have always said is dangerous, and berries of which nobody can point me to specific food berry which has every killed someone)

2)what other animal shows the diversity towards what is and is not a harmful food for that animal that people on here claim humans have. (the only answer I have recieved for this is animals such as bears and pigs which are complete omnivores meaning all pigs no matter what breed can eat anything, there is not one pig that can eat x food while another cant in the manner that some claim certain humans are harmed by salt and some are not.)

no animal has this type of diversity and humans are no exception. please point me to such an animal if not.

this means I want to see an animal for which one breed eats x food and benefits from it while another breed eats x food and is harmed by it. this is a very specific question and neither bears nor pigs nor racoons fit that description

[TylerDurden]

Bears are not all  complete omnivores, polar bears are carnivores. Plus, depending on the species of bear, there is usually a preference for one class of food.

[svrn]

POW!  another argument destroyed...i think im on a killing spree

[Iguana]

at makes you think I am angry? That I address every single point made against me and attempt to do it in a precise manner that leaves nothing unanswered?

if you didnt get sick it means you didnt swallow enough of the poison.

am I angry because nobody can correctly answer these two questions which I have been posing for pages thus making me constantly have to repeat myself?

1) what other raw food causes death when you ingest too much of it. (the only answers I seem to have so far are water which I have always said is dangerous and salt water which I have always said is dangerous, and berries of which nobody can point me to specific food berry which has every killed someone)

I already answered you that everything eaten in excess become noxious. The dose makes the poison: http://www.amazon.com/The-Dose-Makes-Poison-Plain-Language/dp/0470381124 It’s written bigger on the cover of that book, so perhaps you could finally grab it?

It’s boring to have a flood of posts of guys like you, with some months or at best a few years of experience with their own kind of raw food nutrition — and moreover on themselves alone — giving authoritative and categorical  advices based on their current beliefs and their personal, specific cases. People deprived of a scientific background don’t put things into perspective. They think they know it all and hold the ultimate, unquestionable truth, that they are cleverer than the others including pioneers-scientists and meticulous researchers like Burger, Eaton, Cordain, etc. Instead of being willing to learn, they ignore or even scoff at the thorough research and experience of those having been practicing raw paleo nutrition for several decades, sometimes with entire families and plenty others around them.

Some humility as well as a space devoted to doubts and questioning is an inestimable asset you don’t seem to have..

I told you, I won’t respond anymore to your posts and this is the last time I do. It’s a waste of time because you’ve made up your mind and no fact can lead you to reconsider your weird stances.

[svrn]

lol, so the list of raw foods that people have died from remains

1)salt water
2)water

the two things iv always said are dangerous

this is so funny to me 

[TylerDurden]

POW!  another argument destroyed...i think im on a killing spree

Not really. Polar bears are classed as carnivores re digestive system and everything else. PLant-eaters are noted for eating insects along with their plants but that does not make them omnivores, so carnivores eating the occasional plant food like cats eating grass or polar bears chewing the occasional leaf, are not omnivores either.

[svrn]

i shall repeat my question which you purport to be answering simply to reiterate for the readers not as an attempt to get into another circular argument

this means I want to see an animal for which one breed eats x food and benefits from it while another breed eats x food and is harmed by it.

do you as the reader believe that the polar bear example fits this criteria? I will not go back and forth on this particular issue anymore. Feel free to propose another example if youd like and I will respond to that.

It would be best to leave it for the reader to decide at this point.

[svrn]

and if my stances are weird iguana then yours are definitly wierd seeing as there are more primal dieters than instinctos.

just use google, you will find your views are far more obscure than mine.

[ys]

lol, so the list of raw foods that people have died from remains

1)salt water
2)water

the two things iv always said are dangerous

you have not proved a single point that water in moderate amounts is hazardous to human health.
too much oxygen is poisonous too, that does not mean you should give up oxygen completely.

[svrn]

first of all oxygen is not a food

has anyone ever died from breathing too much clean air?

can you show me one case of someone dying from drinking too much raw milk in one session?

i can show many cases of people dying from drinking too much water or salt water in one session.
do you want me to start posting these cases? it would be very easy.

[TylerDurden]

first of all oxygen is not a food

has anyone ever died from breathing too much clean air?

can you show me one case of someone dying from drinking too much raw milk in one session?

i can show many cases of people dying from drinking too much water or salt water in one session.
do you want me to start posting these cases? it would be very easy.

Actually, I came pretty close to dying after drinking too much milk. It was around the time I was still consuming lots of raw dairy. I had lost all taste for raw meats and just guzzled the foul dairy and got various nasty side-effects, heart-trouble etc. etc.,  which would have hospitalised me if I had continued.