warning - take this seriously

[CitrusHigh]

That's the thing Charlie, we haven't brainwashed ourselves, the difference in quality of life now from the way I used to be is so incredibly stark. No fantasy here, just results! Keep experimenting, you'll get it!

[raw]

Dear Charlie, I understand u. It's like u r in super concious mind and all ur six senses working with u for all these judgement. You r already smart enough to start with diet to correct ur ill mind. You definitely are not crazy or schizophrenic. I know what that is. My brother is suffering from schizophenia. He doesn't have understanding any good  or bad. He doesn't know his own good.

What do u mean by 100% raw meat diet? 100% raw meat is dangerous. U can look for 80% probiotics therapy containing VSL#3, high meat, water kefir , kombucha, rotten fish and all raw fats , acidophilus...etc.  20% of raw meat and fruits and veggie. Rice/potatoes can make ur mood swing severely.  You can put yourself into bed therapy which has no side effects and nothing to do with diet. My brother has no understanding of diet.

[Dorothy]

Thank you very much for detailing for us your history and reaction to any raw meat right now. How sad that it started with a medication. Grrr. It affected your biochemistry and you haven't been able to get back from it yet - but eventually you will figure out something that will work for you.

It is interesting that you don't have the same reaction to cooked meat as your do to raw meat. I have no why this would be. Does anyone here? My guess is that cooking deactivates something in the meat that has an affect on your chemistry of your brain/cns or hormones. It might be something that is usually good generally but for you after the Ritalin it is not. Others will be able to guess what that might be better than me - but it does give an important clue. Is anyone here versed in the biochemistry of Ritalin and how it works?

By meat I'm assuming that you mean muscle meat. How do you feel when you eat raw animal fat?
Do you eat bone marrow or suet?
Do you get the same results when eating say fatty fish raw?
Do you eat other seafood and get the same reaction?
Do you get that reaction when you eat raw eggs?
How about organs?
Have you tried raw milk, cream, butter? Does that affect you similarly?
Basically - does anything besides muscle meat have the same effect?

The fact that you got rid of the pain means that you have been able to affect your condition and that's very good news. The fact that  you can think about it and have figured out something that makes you feel worse is actually a very good thing because it gives you clues.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to detox Ritalin from the body - especially how to get past that blood/brain barrier?

Again, thanks for the information and I think we need yet more information regarding how other raw animal foods affect you. Eventually we'll figure it out.

[Neone]

Maybe you should check out something like Steven Covey's "7 Habits of Highly Effective People". I personally took a lot from it and thought that there was a lot of really good intellectual life strategies in it.

Getting your brain working well with a raw diet (I found my perspective changed a lot when my brain started to see clearer on a raw diet) is only part of it. If you don't have healthy paradigms to go with your healthy mind, then  you're not going to get all that you could out of it.

[Charlie4444]

Thank you very much for detailing for us your history and reaction to any raw meat right now. How sad that it started with a medication. Grrr. It affected your biochemistry and you haven't been able to get back from it yet - but eventually you will figure out something that will work for you.

It is interesting that you don't have the same reaction to cooked meat as your do to raw meat. I have no why this would be. Does anyone here? My guess is that cooking deactivates something in the meat that has an affect on your chemistry of your brain/cns or hormones. It might be something that is usually good generally but for you after the Ritalin it is not. Others will be able to guess what that might be better than me - but it does give an important clue. Is anyone here versed in the biochemistry of Ritalin and how it works?

By meat I'm assuming that you mean muscle meat. How do you feel when you eat raw animal fat?
Do you eat bone marrow or suet?
Do you get the same results when eating say fatty fish raw?
Do you eat other seafood and get the same reaction?
Do you get that reaction when you eat raw eggs?
How about organs?
Have you tried raw milk, cream, butter? Does that affect you similarly?
Basically - does anything besides muscle meat have the same effect?

The fact that you got rid of the pain means that you have been able to affect your condition and that's very good news. The fact that  you can think about it and have figured out something that makes you feel worse is actually a very good thing because it gives you clues.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to detox Ritalin from the body - especially how to get past that blood/brain barrier?

Again, thanks for the information and I think we need yet more information regarding how other raw animal foods affect you. Eventually we'll figure it out.

^
Well, I crave to do social things, and the only way I can do it is to abuse Ritalin once again.  I have used it very rarely since that incident, but didnt get signficantly worse, just stayed about the same.  Right now, I can never get excited or enthused, or feel like myself about anything unless I'm on caffeine or ritalin.  Basically, I need a stimulant to feel like myself.  Before turning 20, I used to never need anything to get excited, it just happened naturally.  I can feel how it's the front part of my brain that won't turn on anymore.  The thing is, I dont' hear of this happening to anybody else from ritalin use, a bunch of my friends and tons of people abuse this drug way harder and way more often than me, and don't have problems like me, so I can't really blame the ritalin.  Since diet had such an impact, it gave hope that there was a bigger picture here of poor health of my brain body connection. 

^^ I've tried everything Aajonus Vonderplantiz as suggested, tried raw milkm butter, raw animal suet, raw oragans, etc.  Organs are good, so is raw fat, dairy is not good. 

But I discovered that I was eating way too much raw oragans and muscles that it was way too much iron in m system and making me way too tired, etc.  Too much of anything is bad.  I had soo much in my system, that right now, even a little raw suet, raw organ, or muscle raises that iron back to being too high.  In a few weeks, I'll probably start eating raw meat again. 

[wodgina]

Keep yourself ridiculously busy.

Stay off the internet

[Dorothy]

^
Well, I crave to do social things, and the only way I can do it is to abuse Ritalin once again.  I have used it very rarely since that incident, but didnt get signficantly worse, just stayed about the same.  Right now, I can never get excited or enthused, or feel like myself about anything unless I'm on caffeine or ritalin.  Basically, I need a stimulant to feel like myself.  Before turning 20, I used to never need anything to get excited, it just happened naturally.  I can feel how it's the front part of my brain that won't turn on anymore.  The thing is, I dont' hear of this happening to anybody else from ritalin use, a bunch of my friends and tons of people abuse this drug way harder and way more often than me, and don't have problems like me, so I can't really blame the ritalin.  Since diet had such an impact, it gave hope that there was a bigger picture here of poor health of my brain body connection. 

^^ I've tried everything Aajonus Vonderplantiz as suggested, tried raw milkm butter, raw animal suet, raw oragans, etc.  Organs are good, so is raw fat, dairy is not good. 

But I discovered that I was eating way too much raw oragans and muscles that it was way too much iron in m system and making me way too tired, etc.  Too much of anything is bad.  I had soo much in my system, that right now, even a little raw suet, raw organ, or muscle raises that iron back to being too high.  In a few weeks, I'll probably start eating raw meat again. 

Charlie, different drugs affect individuals differently. I highly suggest you stay away from Ritalin at all costs since it is what started this whole fiasco in the first place! Who cares if other people can abuse it. You aren't them. Other people can eat sugar but sugar does me all sorts of damage. I can't think straight, I get depressed, I can't move. Others it makes happy, me it depresses. Same thing with coffee - except it makes me angry too before it depresses me. If you have to do something then at least just drink coffee until you get this figured out as it's not as intense of a drug as ritalin. But both might have affected your adrenal function. Is your temperature normal? Do you ever get pains in your back just below your kidney area?

You are so right that too much of anything can cause problems - especially for some people. How do you know that you have too much iron? Did you get it tested? So it sounds like a small amount of raw organs and fat is good - you just can't over-do it because of the iron. Is that true? Can you eat raw organs and raw fat and not have the deadening get worse? Milk doesn't work for so many people that it's not surprising.

Does fat really have a lot of iron in it?  Fat is so essential for brain function that it can't be overestimated.

How about raw eggs. That's in AV's protocol right? How do they sit?

I can't seem to eat more than a tiny bit of muscle meat but I can eat tons of fat. My brain seems to really love the stuff and my body is happy with it. I've never heard of fat containing lots of iron. Would someone else chime in here about the fat and iron connection?

Charlie, I'd like to try to convince you to not try to push the energy you want by unnatural means but to try to keep on experimenting and working on a natural and healthy long-term solution. If you keep on experimenting and working on the problem that the Ritalin caused by trying to deactivate what happened to you or reactivate what was turned off rather than push it further by taking more Ritalin - I think you might have a better long-term life experience in general. It's going to suck not having energy, but from that place you can see how natural things you try affect you or not. As long as you are unnaturally forcing things you don't have a baseline from which to analyze things. Besides, something obviously went terribly wrong with a drug. The way to try to make it right isn't by continuing to take more the drug that made it wrong in the first place.

Some dietary things really helped you. It took away the intense pain for instance. There are certain healthy things you can eat. No one here is telling you to eat too much of anything. It's a delicate balance for all of us as individuals. I can't eat too much fruit or I get loopy. Everyone has different imbalances to deal with. Eventually, if you are persistent, you get closer and closer by getting more and more information and hints as to what might and does work for you as an individual.

Please stay hopeful. People have come back from much worse things than what you are experiencing. You are able to think and aren't hallucinating right? That gives you a LOT to work with. You also have a whole group of people with experience and ideas here to help you work it through - however long it takes. All you can do is start where you are.

I'm going to repeat a couple of the important questions here at the end.
1. How do you know that your iron levels get too high?
2. Do organs and fat make your system more depressed?
3. How do eggs affect you?
4. Is your temperature normal? Do you have any physical pains?
and I'll add one:
5. Have you tried high meat?

Thanks for talking about your experiences Charlie.

[Dorothy]

Keep yourself ridiculously busy.

Stay off the internet

When someone is seriously depressed it is a biochemical disease that prevents them from being able to be busy. He is on the internet trying to get help.

[wodgina]

When someone is seriously depressed it is a biochemical disease that prevents them from being able to be busy. He is on the internet trying to get help.

It's not a disease, lately it has been linked to inflammation. No one really knows why.

They get mental patients to do basket weaving, keeps them busy and it can be meditative.

[jessica]

if you craved socializing you would do it without the use of Ritalin
you need to figure out what makes you happy and stop participating in bullshit, its called growing up, what you appreciated when you were younger and what is more fulfilling to you change, you need to figure that out

depression can become a severe chemical imbalance when someone starts abusing their bodies with food, mood, environment, habits, etc...but mostly it starts when some thing is off in a persons life and they start living in a way that becomes more and more physically and mentally unhealthy because they are not aware that they need to change their living situation and get healthy on all levels

[jessica]

ps  dont take ritalin, thats fucking stupid...
psilocybin mushrooms will open connections in your brain
go camping somewhere you feel comfortable and take a few grams, less than 4, on an empty stomach and go for a hike

[Chris]

Charlie, you seriously need some psychiatric help my friend. I doubt anyone can help you in this forum, unless there a trained professional. If you function better on cooked foods, than by all means eat cooked food. If raw meat turns you into Mr. Hyde, then don't eat it. What's with the "warning" on your post? Most of us, if not all. Eat a diet based on raw animal protein. You don't see us going madd, do you? Maybe the medicine that you took, rewired your circuits or something. I doubt, eating raw meat is the culprit. I think your issues go way beyond, what this forum is capable of doing for you. I know there are a lot of people who really want to help you out, and feel for you, and that's great. But, beware, of people who are not qualified to deal with your problems/issues. You seem like a smart person, use your common sense, and follow you instincts. Good Luck with your condition! I hope you get the help, and support that you deserve.

[Dorothy]

It's not a disease, lately it has been linked to inflammation. No one really knows why.

They get mental patients to do basket weaving, keeps them busy and it can be meditative.

When I say disease - maybe I more mean that it is beyond his control. It is a physiological, biochemical kind of thing. If he had someone there to keep him busy that would be good, but Charlie from what he said is having a real hard time self-motivating.

[Dorothy]

No one on a forum is able to diagnose or treat anything - yet...  I have found extraordinary help here and from PaleoPhil in the past in ways that I could never get from a standard medical practitioner for me and my family because all but a tiny percent have not a CLUE about diet. If he goes to psychiatrist they will just start pumping him up with drugs. If he wants something else, or is hoping to discover something more natural for himself - he needs to discover some new ideas. This is a place FILLED with new ideas.

Charlie has very specifically asked for what kind of suggestions that he is looking for. I think he has every right to ask for it and to say what he isn't willing to entertain. He has to take charge for himself. I think he's trying to do that with diet.

This is predominantly a diet related forum and he is open to trying diet related possibilities for helping himself. He put out a warning in case anyone else was suffering as he was - granted - not worded that great but I'm letting it slide as he has already said that his problems started way before raw paleo. He admits that his brain isn't working that great and that he is having serious problems socially. That kind of wording to me is just a demonstration of his problems. Such wording is alienating to us. It makes sense with everything else that he would do that. I'm not letting that stop me from trying to do what he is asking for.

Jessica - I have to agree with what you said much more directly than me. Ritalin in my opinion too is stupid. I'm not sure about doing any other things that can create hallucinations in his delicate state though.

[Dorothy]

Here's some information on Ritalin that I found:

"Methylphenidate works by affecting some of the natural chemicals that are found in the brain. In particular, it increases the activity of chemicals called dopamine and noradrenaline in areas of the brain that play a part in controlling attention and behaviour."

Sedating effect of Ritalin 

Dr. Breggin notes that “In today’s society, the drugging of children to control their behavior is viewed as a medical activity, but it has little or nothing to do with the genuine practice of medicine.”[12]  He also warns that Ritalin is being used to medicate children into submission.  This observation is similar to that made in the book Not in Our Genes, which reported that in the use of Ritalin, 

… higher doses simply result in sedation—yet in school use it is the higher doses that tend to be employed.[13] This makes the drug yet one more version of the chemical straightjacket, ensuring that the teacher has an easier task in maintaining classroom order, but only by doping out the children who would otherwise make it harder.[14]

Dr. Breggin accuses our school system of waging a “war on children” in which schools are selectively suppressing some of the most intelligent, brave, energetic, and creative children. He writes:   

There’s a war against children going on in our schools and the most outstanding of our children are the first to be targeted for control by drugs. We’re using drugs the way gardeners use herbicides to destroy weeds—except these toxins are aimed at the flowering of our children. Schools are not the only institutions that encourage the drugging of children. Controlling children with psychiatric medications is rampant in foster homes and in any institutional setting, such as juvenile detention centers and prisons, where docility is valued.[15]

He also accuses indiscriminate use of dangerous drugs on children as a form of “technological child abuse” and laments the fact that many of his colleagues in the medical profession could stem the tide of this abuse, but have not: 

The psychiatric diagnosing and drugging of children should be viewed as a form of technological child abuse—conformity enforced by physical suppression of the brain. I do not blame the millions of parents and teachers who have been hoodwinked by organized psychiatry and medicine. Instead, I hold my colleagues responsible for this national catastrophe, especially those mental health professionals who enjoy leadership roles in professional associations, universities, government agencies, and industry. I call upon them to find the courage to stand up on behalf of children. The combined efforts of a relatively small but ethical fraction of the health profession could stem the tide of medical child abuse.[16] 

Ritalin: a dangerous drug 

     There is no evidence that Ritalin has any beneficial long-term effects. In a study done by R. Weiss and his scientific colleagues, hyperactive children who had been treated with Ritalin for up to five years, and compared them to similarly hyperactive children who had not had drug treatment.[17] They fully expected to see a beneficial drug effect. But they reported “no differences in adolescence between the drugged and the undrugged children in school marks, in number of grades failed, in amount of hyperactivity, or in antisocial behavior. The problems of organically hyperactive children seemed to linger on, whether or not they had been drugged.”[18]
     Ritalin has been touted as a safe, non-addictive drug. Unfortunately, both claims are false. As Dr. Breggin points out, “It is not a speculation but a fact demonstrated in thousands of laboratory studies in normal animals: All psychiatric drugs produce severe biochemical imbalances and related abnormalities by interferring with the normal brain function.”[19] He also writes that Ritalin and other stimulants: 

… do not ‘normalize’ the brain; they render it abnormal. This cannot be over-emphasized: Stimulants produce pathological malfunctions in the child’s brain. Whenever these drugs have any direct effect on the child’s mind or behavior, they do so by disrupting brain function. In short, effective doses of Ritalin always cause malfunctions in the brain.[20]

     This drug-induced brain disruption is the “robotic effect” sometimes observed in children taking Ritalin.   
     Regarding the erroneous claims that Ritalin is non-addictive, it should be noted that “Under the Controlled Substances Act, the FDA classifies Ritalin in Schedule II—the most addictive class of drugs in medical use. It shares Schedule II with other stimulants (Dexedrine and cocaine) and with narcotics (morphine).”[21] The International Narcotics Control Board in 1996 declared: “Methlyphenidate’s [Ritalin’s] pharmacological effects are essentially the same as those of amphetamine and methamphetamines. The abuse of methlyphenidate can lead to tolerance and severe psychological dependence. Psychotic episodes, violent and bizarre behavior have been reported.”[22] Furthermore, the International Narcotics Control Board reported that in 1996 “emergency room visits by children age 10-14 involving Ritalin intoxication have now reached the same level as those for cocaine. This indicates escalating abuse of this highly addictive drug.” 

A little known fact is that drug addicts are frequently using Ritalin. By 1973 G.S. Omenn noted: 

Illicit traffic in Ritalin has increased among narcotic addicts… Those on Methadone appreciate the “up” effect of Ritalin. Those on heroin can prolong the duration of action of a given dose of heroin by concommitantly taking Ritalin… In Chicago’s Cook County Prison, Ritalin is called “West Coast” by the heroin addicts.[23] 

Other physical effects of Ritalin include brain shrinkage, according to a 1986 report by Henry A. Nasrallah:

A team led by Henry A. Nasrallah (1986) from Ohio State found shrinkage of the brain more than 50% of twenty-four young adults with hyperactivity since childhood. Shrinkage—or the more technical term, atrophy—indicates that brain tissue has become withered and reduced in volume.[24]

Ritalin has also been proven to effect growth in children: 

Dozens of studies have demonstrated that Ritalin disrupts the normal cycle of growth hormone production in the body. By the mid 1970s, the effect of Ritalin in disrupting growth hormone levels in most subjects was already “unequivocal.” The adverse effect on growth hormone is so regular and predictable that it can be used as a measure of whether or not the Ritalin is active in the child’s body.[25]

Additionally, Ritalin use can affect future career choices of children. The Department of Defense has an official policy of turning away all recruits who have taken Ritalin or other similar drugs after the age of twelve.[26] But Dr. Breggin’s warning about Ritalin are not based merely on compromised career choices; he considers Ritalin a toxic agent that should be illegal: “I believe it is abusive and I think it should be illegal. It harms the brain of the child and undermines any hope of a peaceful, loving resolution of the conflicts the child is having with other people.”[27]

from: http://www.tldm.org/news6/ritalin.htm

Charlie - if you feel like you have become less vibrant and alive and are emotionally sedated after taking Ritalin and socially dampened - that's basically what it is designed to do as a drug. It's also highly addictive. Stand clear of it if you can. If you can't stop taking it - get help with the addiction.

[Charlie4444]

No  one has really suggested much good, mostly people telling me how to live, and lecturing.  I thought people on here were after the truth of improved health, so why are you all repeating shit that we know doesn't work!  Everything people have said I already know, and I mean EVERYTHING.  If there's something I don't know or didn't try, I'll say it!!  This post is about throwing out a bate, hoping I'll catch a response from someone who had the same thing happen to them, and how they cured it.  If you don't meet my requirements for responding, then don't!!

[Charlie4444]

Oh and Dorothy asked if I ate eggs, raw or not.  No, I don't eat a female chickens period.  Thats even stupider than guzzling a female four legged herbivore's milk for their newly born.

[aLptHW4k4y]

But I discovered that I was eating way too much raw oragans and muscles that it was way too much iron in m system and making me way too tired, etc.  Too much of anything is bad.  I had soo much in my system, that right now, even a little raw suet, raw organ, or muscle raises that iron back to being too high.  In a few weeks, I'll probably start eating raw meat again.

Just go donate some blood if you have too much iron..

[raw]

Please Charlie, the drug Retalin is obviously blocking ur system. U are not going to find anyone in this forum that takes this stupid drugs and coming for HELP  in  this forum.

[Chris]

No bait here Charlie. I figured you out a while ago! Why do you linger, and persist in this forum? Seems like your looking for a magical pill. You stated in a prior post, that your here because of mental illness. Dude, nutrition is only one step. I wouldn't know where to start with you? Maybe, a shrink? I'd suggest a dog, but you'd probably abuse it, like you do a lot of people already in your life. You need to get off this self pity bullshit. I doubt your going to find someone on this site, who is as fucked up as you are! Really man, did you really have to go off on these people, who are here trying to help you? If you don't like what you hear, then move on and disappear. I for one, won't miss your childhood antics! Grow UP!

[goodsamaritan]

No  one has really suggested much good, mostly people telling me how to live, and lecturing.  I thought people on here were after the truth of improved health, so why are you all repeating shit that we know doesn't work!  Everything people have said I already know, and I mean EVERYTHING.  If there's something I don't know or didn't try, I'll say it!!  This post is about throwing out a bate, hoping I'll catch a response from someone who had the same thing happen to them, and how they cured it.  If you don't meet my requirements for responding, then don't!!

Oh and Dorothy asked if I ate eggs, raw or not.  No, I don't eat a female chickens period.  Thats even stupider than guzzling a female four legged herbivore's milk for their newly born.

Charlie4444,

Whoa... this is odd.  People here are trying their best to help you and we get this?

There are possibilities here:

#1 - You have serious anger issues that blind you in rage.

or

#2 - You are high on drugs / deranged on drugs whether legal or illegal.

or

#3 - Your account was compromised and taken over by a vegan troll.

Maybe it's better if you communicate by voice or video or see a real healer personally.

[wodgina]

Hugs?

[joej627]

This thread just goes to show me how compassionate most people on this forum are.  Honestly, I know we all have differences here and there but these are some of the most educated free thinking, good willed people i know

[jessica]

eat more fat, omega 3's
perhaps you reacted to the chicken because its super high omega 6 and inflammatory

heres a timely article on excessive iron from dr. mercola

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/07/19/excess-iron-leads-to-alzheimers.aspx?e_cid=20120719_DNL_artNew_1

[raw]

Eating more fat like animal's fat and omega 3 (minami brand which Dorothy recommended) put ur priority list. Lots of fats and probiotics therapy. Have u ever tried the probiotics therepy? that will be very effective . VSL#3 enemas once a day, VSL#3 taking oraly twice a day, high meat as much as u can for everyday. U can replace the raw meat by high meat. Get some delicious drinks with full of probiotics. Your depression will go away instantly.
Stop taking drugs. Even if u do, then slowly reduce the drugs and u will be again the REAL you in no time.