Ketogenic diets and cancer

[Löwenherz]

Here is a new excellent book about the benefits of ketogenic diets for cancer patients:

http://www.amazon.de/Krebszellen-lieben-Zucker-Patienten-brauchen/dp/3927372900/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1342267168&sr=8-1

from University Hospital Würzburg

Löwenherz

[Dorothy]

The one problem with ketogenics for people with cancer could be their pancreas/liver function which is always impaired in cancer patients that might not be addressed. One of the reasons that the Budwig protocol is so amazingly effective is because it uses sulfur to make fats water soluble so they can by-pass the liver and be directly brought and absorbed into the cells. Raw ketogenic would have a better chance of not possibly overloading the fat processing systems of the body that are already debilitated.

That's why fasting on certain foods without fats for a period is so effective as well. You get the starvation of the cancer cells you get with ketogenics without stressing the liver.

[zaidi]

The one problem with ketogenics for people with cancer could be their pancreas/liver function which is always impaired in cancer patients that might not be addressed. One of the reasons that the Budwig protocol is so amazingly effective is because it uses sulfur to make fats water soluble so they can by-pass the liver and be directly brought and absorbed into the cells. Raw ketogenic would have a better chance of not possibly overloading the fat processing systems of the body that are already debilitated.

That's why fasting on certain foods without fats for a period is so effective as well. You get the starvation of the cancer cells you get with ketogenics without stressing the liver.

Dear Dorothy, now I am confused (but only a little).

In her protocol, she suggests against using any kind of animal protein or fat.

I would appreciate if you shed some light upon this.

[Dorothy]

As far as I can tell Budwig (who you are referring to right?) was not advocating a ketogenic diet. Her diet is based upon building up the system through nutrition rather than directly starving out the cancer cells. The basis of her system is to feed the CELLS fat directly through mixing it with sulfured dairy. No other dairy or animal foods are allowed. A ketogenic diet on the other hand starves out the cancer cells because the cancer cells need lots of sugar to ferment (which they are very bad at doing using only 10% of it).

Remember, that so many alternative cancer treatments work because there are many different avenues. You can cleanse and build up the body (immune system, organs etc.) with nutrition, you can starve the cancer cells, you can attack the cancer cells directly or you can make the environment inhospitable to cancer cells by making it too high in oxygen or too low in acid or too high of a temperature. They all work and work really well - better than what you will get from any regular MD with only a 3% cure rate. Many can also be used together. The ketogenic diet however cannot be used with the Budwig diet as they come at the problem using diet from two different directions. You could however add just the sulphured dairy and flaxseed oil from Budwig into the ketogenic diet if you like. Not a bad idea at all.

Also - this is REALLY IMPORTANT - just because a diet is good at healing cancer does not necessarily make it a good long-term diet after the cancer is gone - just because a certain therapies works at getting rid of cancer doesn't mean you should do it forever and certainly not necessarily to prevent cancer. People get so confused about this. "Well, this cures cancer so I should eat it/take it to prevent cancer and keep on doing it forever" - kind of thinking makes zero sense. When you have cancer you have a very particular priority that outweighs all others until it is handled.

Raw paleo in general is a way to prevent most cancer and to cleanse, heal and nourish and build the body long-term. You can add other therapies to it as well - but raw paleo is a good foundation for a lot of therapies but not all. There are many diets that can be the foundation to cure cancer, but raw paleo is the foundation to build a really strong body and central nervous system in general. If I had cancer I might not choose to stay raw paleo for a short time. I might choose to do something radical like the oregon grape cleanse where you eat nothing for at least 12 hours and then eat only dark grapes. At that point the cancer cells are really starving and want sugar so devour the grapes along with the reservatrol and other elements that are in the grapes that kill cancer cells. Just because I might choose to do that for awhile doesn't mean that I would think it's a good idea to eat only grapes the rest of my life.

Just for the record, I would not personally choose ketogenics as my number one choice for curing cancer because of the stress on the organs it can create even if just temporarily. There are too many great alternatives, but I really don't do well at all without carbs so maybe I'm biased.

[cherimoya_kid]

That's why fasting on certain foods without fats for a period is so effective as well. You get the starvation of the cancer cells you get with ketogenics without stressing the liver.

This is true.  However, don't you feel that the sudden detox brought on by fasting can be a problem for some people?

[Raw Kyle]

Is there any evidence that grape cleanse works to kill cancer cells?

[zaidi]

As far as I can tell Budwig (who you are referring to right?) was not advocating a ketogenic diet. Her diet is based upon building up the system through nutrition rather than directly starving out the cancer cells. The basis of her system is to feed the CELLS fat directly through mixing it with sulfured dairy. No other dairy or animal foods are allowed. A ketogenic diet on the other hand starves out the cancer cells because the cancer cells need lots of sugar to ferment (which they are very bad at doing using only 10% of it).

Remember, that so many alternative cancer treatments work because there are many different avenues. You can cleanse and build up the body (immune system, organs etc.) with nutrition, you can starve the cancer cells, you can attack the cancer cells directly or you can make the environment inhospitable to cancer cells by making it too high in oxygen or too low in acid or too high of a temperature. They all work and work really well - better than what you will get from any regular MD with only a 3% cure rate. Many can also be used together. The ketogenic diet however cannot be used with the Budwig diet as they come at the problem using diet from two different directions. You could however add just the sulphured dairy and flaxseed oil from Budwig into the ketogenic diet if you like. Not a bad idea at all.

Also - this is REALLY IMPORTANT - just because a diet is good at healing cancer does not necessarily make it a good long-term diet after the cancer is gone - just because a certain therapies works at getting rid of cancer doesn't mean you should do it forever and certainly not necessarily to prevent cancer. People get so confused about this. "Well, this cures cancer so I should eat it/take it to prevent cancer and keep on doing it forever" - kind of thinking makes zero sense. When you have cancer you have a very particular priority that outweighs all others until it is handled.

Raw paleo in general is a way to prevent most cancer and to cleanse, heal and nourish and build the body long-term. You can add other therapies to it as well - but raw paleo is a good foundation for a lot of therapies but not all. There are many diets that can be the foundation to cure cancer, but raw paleo is the foundation to build a really strong body and central nervous system in general. If I had cancer I might not choose to stay raw paleo for a short time. I might choose to do something radical like the oregon grape cleanse where you eat nothing for at least 12 hours and then eat only dark grapes. At that point the cancer cells are really starving and want sugar so devour the grapes along with the reservatrol and other elements that are in the grapes that kill cancer cells. Just because I might choose to do that for awhile doesn't mean that I would think it's a good idea to eat only grapes the rest of my life.

Just for the record, I would not personally choose ketogenics as my number one choice for curing cancer because of the stress on the organs it can create even if just temporarily. There are too many great alternatives, but I really don't do well at all without carbs so maybe I'm biased.

Thanks dear for explaining it so well to me.

I have got one big problem. I am not able to do well with fats (especially raw animal fats). As soon as I eat fats, my breath starts smelling badly (something to do with bad liver? Please suggest what could be wrong).

I am even unable to do good with Coconut oil or butter and same problem occurs.

All in all, I am doing raw paleo without fats which is not bringing proper health effects and pure protein diet is not so much satisfying for me.

You suggested Budwig Protocol. I read it and it seems to be ray of hope to me. Your 2nd suggestion of raw paleo + sulphured dairy + flaxseed oil .... this is my next aim.  (.... One more question, can one eat these 3 things mixed together i.e. raw meat mixed with cheese+oil or is this is bad combination?).

[Dorothy]

This is true.  However, don't you feel that the sudden detox brought on by fasting can be a problem for some people?

Of Course! I'm suggesting any particular protocol - especially fasting. There are so many better ways. What I'm trying to say is that there are many different kinds of things that kill cancer cells that you might not want to do - even if you have cancer. You can't just think of it as this kills cancer cells so it's good. You absolutely must take the whole picture  into consideration.

Point in fact was my mother. The doctor didn't think that she was going to live more than a couple of weeks so neglected to tell me that he was only putting in a temporary stent for her bile duct. She almost didn't make it through that one but he was saying that she had to have another one in 4-8 weeks! I could have killed him. So I then had to take her off all her good fats so that that darn stent wouldn't clog up. I miraculously got it to stay open for 8 months that way - but the lack of fats stimulated a misdiagnosed Parkinson's Disease that started over 30 years before (they thought she had a stroke but they didn't have the same kind of equipment as today). Because they assumed she was always just about to die they refused to work with me on the real issue. By the time they had to replace the stent her cancer was gone but not long after she died of late stage Parkinson's Disease that was sent into overdrive by the lack of fats in her diet.

So you see - it's about if the patient can live and survive through the treatment - not just whether the treatment gets rid of a tumor or kills cancer cells.

If I had only known at the beginning what I know now!

[Dorothy]

Thanks dear for explaining it so well to me.

I have got one big problem. I am not able to do well with fats (especially raw animal fats). As soon as I eat fats, my breath starts smelling badly (something to do with bad liver? Please suggest what could be wrong).

I am even unable to do good with Coconut oil or butter and same problem occurs.

All in all, I am doing raw paleo without fats which is not bringing proper health effects and pure protein diet is not so much satisfying for me.

You suggested Budwig Protocol. I read it and it seems to be ray of hope to me. Your 2nd suggestion of raw paleo + sulphured dairy + flaxseed oil .... this is my next aim.  (.... One more question, can one eat these 3 things mixed together i.e. raw meat mixed with cheese+oil or is this is bad combination?).

Got to tell you first that cheese is not part of the Budwig protocol. I can teach you all about it though. You need raw milk and cultured buttermilk and I can tell you how to make quark which is what Budwig used.

But it sounds more like you just have a liver that is not doing so well. This is a big subject. The first thing to do is first take out all the toxic things from your diet and home - but being here you already know this. Then, I would try some gentle cleansers and builders. Milk thistle is the first that I would try for the liver and peppermint for the gall bladder. If your bile is globbed up then you won't be able to release toxins as easily. I would also try some deep breathing and skin brushing as alternate methods of helping toxins release from the body to give your liver a bit of a break. These are just my ideas and the ways that I've helped my liver in the past. I always try the simplest and least invasive things first. I haven't tried Al's h202 therapy yet, but I wonder about it. Also, Al's incline bed therapy - just a tiny bit - an inch or two - which will keep your kidneys working all night to take the load off of the liver. Carrots and beets are GREAT cleansers and builders for the liver but you have to go REALLY slow incorporating them in your diet when you have liver issues. They can make you dump from your liver too fast if you try to do too much too soon. Just me thinking out loud with general ideas for you to contemplate. Hope some of them are of interest and/or useful.

PS - Thank you so much for the beautiful roses.   

[Dorothy]

Is there any evidence that grape cleanse works to kill cancer cells?

There is evidence that there are components in grapes that do and there have been many people that have been cured on the diet. No real scientific study on the cure of course because who's going to make money from it?

[zaidi]

Got to tell you first that cheese is not part of the Budwig protocol. I can teach you all about it though. You need raw milk and cultured buttermilk and I can tell you how to make quark which is what Budwig used.

But it sounds more like you just have a liver that is not doing so well. This is a big subject. The first thing to do is first take out all the toxic things from your diet and home - but being here you already know this. Then, I would try some gentle cleansers and builders. Milk thistle is the first that I would try for the liver and peppermint for the gall bladder. If your bile is globbed up then you won't be able to release toxins as easily. I would also try some deep breathing and skin brushing as alternate methods of helping toxins release from the body to give your liver a bit of a break. These are just my ideas and the ways that I've helped my liver in the past. I always try the simplest and least invasive things first. I haven't tried Al's h202 therapy yet, but I wonder about it. Also, Al's incline bed therapy - just a tiny bit - an inch or two - which will keep your kidneys working all night to take the load off of the liver. Carrots and beets are GREAT cleansers and builders for the liver but you have to go REALLY slow incorporating them in your diet when you have liver issues. They can make you dump from your liver too fast if you try to do too much too soon. Just me thinking out loud with general ideas for you to contemplate. Hope some of them are of interest and/or useful.

PS - Thank you so much for the beautiful roses.   

Thanks Dorothy,  I was waiting for your reply.

1) Quark from Raw Milk
 
I do not do good with Milk normally. That is why I have not used milk products for a long long time. Also I have not read about kefir or quark and raw milk. It seems I have to do a lot of reading under your guidance.

I read the Budwig Protocol, and I got this impression that none of them was talking about Raw Milk Quark.

I am really thankful to you for correcting this mistake for me.


2) Milk Thistle and Pepperment:

I can eat both of them in raw state.
But big problem is this that I am living in the center of the city and I have absolutely no chance to get wild Milk Thistle or Pepperment.
Is it ok to use them in any other state?


3) Deep Breathing & Skin Brushing

Please guide me to useful Links. I am interested in reading.


4) H2O2
Read the thread. Bookmarked it.
Went to the Medical Store, but was unable to get the Eating Grade H2O2.
Will try tomorrow.


5) incline bed therapy

It is easy to do and I will do it.

Some times small things make big changes in your life. Let us hope for the good.

[Dorothy]

Thanks Dorothy,  I was waiting for your reply.

1) Quark from Raw Milk
 
I do not do good with Milk normally. That is why I have not used milk products for a long long time. Also I have not read about kefir or quark and raw milk. It seems I have to do a lot of reading under your guidance.

I read the Budwig Protocol, and I got this impression that none of them was talking about Raw Milk Quark.

I am really thankful to you for correcting this mistake for me.


2) Milk Thistle and Pepperment:

I can eat both of them in raw state.
But big problem is this that I am living in the center of the city and I have absolutely no chance to get wild Milk Thistle or Pepperment.
Is it ok to use them in any other state?


3) Deep Breathing & Skin Brushing

Please guide me to useful Links. I am interested in reading.


4) H2O2
Read the thread. Bookmarked it.
Went to the Medical Store, but was unable to get the Eating Grade H2O2.
Will try tomorrow.


5) incline bed therapy

It is easy to do and I will do it.

Some times small things make big changes in your life. Let us hope for the good.

1. Raw milk quark. Budwig created her marvelous therapy in Germany in the 1950's. What she used was quark. In America they use cottage cheese because it's the closest they can get. I tried most therapies on myself first as a healthy raw foodist to see what affect they would have. When I tried cottage cheese with the flax oil within a time it made me feel really lousy. If it made me feel sick, why would I give it to someone with cancer? It took me six months to figure out what Budwig would have used/made and hunt down a source of raw milk. If you are going to do a therapy from a genius - do what that genius actually was doing to get her results! When I ate the raw quark I felt just fine if not better so was willing to give it to others. You really are supposed to use only a very small amount as a carrier for the oil. But this is a moot point as 1: you can't get raw milk and 2. you have dairy sensitivities. Let me make sure I understand what you are trying to get help with ok? You don't have cancer right, just not able to handle fats well right? For this, with a dairy sensitivity, I would not add dairy products - I would do other things to support fat metabolism.

2. The most effective form of peppermint is the edible oil. I get HerbPharm brand which is a mixture of oil and tincture. I put a squirt in a glass of water to make an iced peppermint tea that tastes great. Obviously, most oils will not be good, but the peppermint oil actually can help a person be able to digest oils better. It's a lot like lecithin which is a fat that can help people to be able to digest fats better. If you can't get this or good oil (I bet Young oils would be good too) then use plain old peppermint tea - just get organic.

Milk thistle is best used in the tincture form. It's a dense seed so it is hard for the body to extract the sylamarin (active ingredient) through the digestive process, especially if there is a problem with digestion. I don't get wild milk thistle - haven't been able to find it here even though there are other thistles. Get the best you can and that will be good enough - but a tincture is what I suggest, or get the seeds and make your own tincture - it's very very easy. The easiest way to make tincture is with alcohol and it does the best at extracting the active ingredients, but if you simply cannot do alcohol there are alternatives. PS - whenever I drink alcohol I take some milk thistle - taking the cure with the poison if you will. Never hurts to give the old liver a little support. I say this because I personally don't worry about small amounts of alcohol  with taking tinctures or even with social drinking. But, I've been pampering my liver for most of my adult life so that now she is strong. I give her carrots and beets burdock root and dandelion and milk thistle and deal with sadness and anger as it comes up, and I do massages for my liver. She had a rough start in life but we've made up for it.

3. I'd have to search for breathing exercises and skin brushing links as I've known those from long before the internet started. Does anyone else have some links that they can put their hands on easily for zaidi? If not - I'll do some searching for you. You can also do some searching and send me the links and I'll tell you if they are any good if you like.

4. Be very careful with the h202. I'm not doing it yet because I won't use water that comes out of plastic as I feel the plastic is worse for me than the benefits will be good. Also, I caution you with what's going on with you, if you do do h202 therapy please go VERY slowly! I would dilute the h202 into 30 % and then use only one drop to start. Remember, if your liver is already stressed you don't want to go dumping a ton more toxins at once. You need to go gradually in your attempt to cleanse to take the stress off of your liver.

5. Please also go extremely slowly with the inclining of your bed. I would go half an inch at a time. You don't really know how great your kidneys are working. They might be very stressed already if your liver isn't doing it's job fully. All these things - do one at a time and do it slowly. When an organ or more is stressed the important thing is to go slow if you can.

6. Other ideas: I've been wondering about your pancreas and if you are making the enzymes necessary to digest fat. Often when the ball bladder and liver is stressed, so is the pancreas. I personally if I were in your shoes would get some vitalzymes or 10zymes - 10zymes if you don't have to worry about any bleeding issues - where your blood might be too thin or if you are on blood thinners. 10zymes are much stronger - you can only take one though because of it's blood thinning elements. Vitalzymes you can take as many as it takes to feel better, but it gets expensive. These things are really GREAT for cancer sufferers. They are pretty much essentials. Cancer cells have a strong fibrin outer covering. When the pancreas is weak it can't produce enough enzymes to break down the fibrin. Some times it's not a bad idea to help an organ out so that you are then able to eat the diet that will give the elements for healing until the help is no longer needed.

These of course are all crutches - but when you have a broken leg a crutch can be really helpful. When you have a broken fat metabolism, a crutch for your liver can be nice sometimes too.

I hope some of this is useful. Remember - I'm just some gal on the internet. Make sure to do your own research, check inside with your own intuition and always follow what your body is telling you works and doesn't. 

[zaidi]

Hi Dorothy,

1) I got very busy day, but still managed to get hands to peppermint tea and ordered the Milk Thistle tincture.

2) Still the lady at Medical Store (in Germany where I live) was unable to understand what I mean from Eating Grade H2O2.

3) She was also not able to suggest any German Version of vitalzymes or 10zymes.  She asked me to come when her Boss is there  .

4) Day before yesterday (before your last mail), I was searching overall for the RAW milk and then I had to drive 24 km away to get the Raw Milk.

I would personally avoid Budwig Protocol,  but still I am very much interested in Budwig Protocal for my Family (SAD eaters). They tasted the Raw milk for the first time in their lives and that tasted them good.

Therefore, if you don't mind, then I want to request you to please explain the method of making quark from raw milk. In Germany, my family is using a lot of quark & cheese (but pasteurized ones).  Therefore, it worths to try with raw quark and hopefully with raw cheese too (although there is one Chain Store "ALDI" where I am able to get the CHEESE from raw milk. Normally I never eat cheese while it causes me health problems, but I noticed I got no health problems when I last time ate the Cheese from raw milk.

The raw milk that I got, it was not from pastured cows. Unfortunately, the cows eat corn too (very difficult to get pastured one here in Germany). I don't know about the quality, but still the milk is really tasty and has about 4% + fats. Actually I did tasted the raw milk before. It is known as "Vorzugsmilch" in Germany and officially allowed to be sold in the market. Unfortunately, this "Vorzugsmilch" is also not from 100% pastured cows.

Another problem is this that the Milk was refrigerated to 4 degree Celsius (i.e. not absolutely fresh raw milk). The lady at farm house told me that it is difficult to make quark from that refrigerated milk.

[Dorothy]

Hi Zaidi,

1) Hope it helps! Always, herbs are very particular to the individual so if you feel worse by taking a little bit - don't do more. Also, remember to start slow.

2) It's called FOOD grade hydrogen peroxide here - but tell her it's the one that is used in food packaging and in food. Not the kind you use on your skin. 30 or 35% is the usual. I would suggest for you to go to the link that Al posted on the subject, print it out, highlight the section on what you need to use and show it to her - or use translation software if it works for such things. Do you have a good source for filtered and distilled water?

3) How about other proteolytic enzymes or metabolic enzymes and/or even just pancreatic enzymes? Can you translate that? That's the kind of enzymes that they are instead of the brand name. Maybe look at the ingredients of the vitalzymes and 10zymes - print out the ingredients and show them to the person you were trying to buy them from. They might recognize the ingredients.

4) Did you get the cultured buttermilk too? You need the raw milk AND the cultured buttermilk to make quark. You could make the cultured buttermilk (which is used as the starter for the fermentation) over the course of a week or two - but it's wasteful and not exactly easy. If you are going to go to get the raw milk again, you might want to wait to make quark until you go back to the farm. Call the farmer and ask if they also have cultured buttermilk. Here, many make that. It's so much easier to buy it than to make it yourself. All you need is a little as a starter to even make the buttermilk - but getting that first concentrated bacteria starter is important.

If you aren't using it for yourself, you might just want to let your family drink the milk? Do they like it? Doe it replace regular pasteurized milk that they usually drink? It's still lots better than that.

If the cows are fed corn at all as a raw paleo person and with your challenges I would stay away from it if I were you. I think you're better off adding some carrots/beets (even juice) instead to help your liver.... as long as you don't have cancer. You don't right?

Refrigeration by the way makes no difference. All the quark I made (and I've made LOTS) was from refrigerated milk. You just have to have that starter buttermilk. 

Some soft cheeses aren't that hard to make but the hard cheeses are more of a challenge. You can make a form of soft cheese from quark though which is pretty easy.

[Dorothy]

Here are the 10 zyme ingredients at the following link:
http://www.essense-of-life.com/moreinfo/enzymes/Z-510/10Zymes.htm
Here are the vitalzyme ingredients:
Proprietary blend contains: Protease, serrapeptase, papain, bromelain, amylase, lipase, rutin and amla.

The serrapeptase I believe is the most important of the ingredients for helping to break down fibrin. Most of the other ingredients you could get in a good digestive enzyme capsule.

http://serrapeptase.info/

[Raw Kyle]

There is evidence that there are components in grapes that do and there have been many people that have been cured on the diet. No real scientific study on the cure of course because who's going to make money from it?

I asked because the resveratrol studies were in no way related to people treating cancer but dealt with cancer in a cell line in a petri dish being dosed with super-physiological amounts. So if the grape cleanse is based on it's resveratrol content then I don't think there's anything to it.