Chimps hunt with tools (spears)

[Ferocious]

I didn't know they did until now. Now if vegans give me the argument that using tools to hunt is unnatural, I can refer them to this:

Summary

Although tool use is known to occur in species ranging from naked mole rats [1] to owls [2], chimpanzees are the most accomplished tool users [3,4,5]. The modification and use of tools during hunting, however, is still considered to be a uniquely human trait among primates. Here, we report the first account of habitual tool use during vertebrate hunting by nonhumans. At the Fongoli site in Senegal, we observed ten different chimpanzees use tools to hunt prosimian prey in 22 bouts. This includes immature chimpanzees and females, members of age-sex classes not normally characterized by extensive hunting behavior. Chimpanzees made 26 different tools, and we were able to recover and analyze 12 of these. Tool construction entailed up to five steps, including trimming the tool tip to a point. Tools were used in the manner of a spear, rather than a probe or rousing tool. This new information on chimpanzee tool use has important implications for the evolution of tool use and construction for hunting in the earliest hominids, especially given our observations that females and immature chimpanzees exhibited this behavior more frequently than adult males.

http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822(07)00801-9

[Projectile Vomit]

Interesting article!

[Dorothy]

Language and tool use have been the things that were so blithely used to describe "what makes us human" for so long - but those ideas have been totally blown out of the water.

Interesting that it was the females and youth that did it and not the adult males. I wonder why that is? Maybe it's function that necessitates the combining of left and right brains or with language memory centers which in humans are more developed in females so might also be in other primates?

[Ferocious]

Language and tool use have been the things that were so blithely used to describe "what makes us human" for so long - but those ideas have been totally blown out of the water.

Interesting that it was the females and youth that did it and not the adult males. I wonder why that is? Maybe it's function that necessitates the combining of left and right brains or with language memory centers which in humans are more developed in females so might also be in other primates?

Maybe...but it didn't say no males used the tools, it just said that females and adolescents used them more. Maybe it's because they are physically weaker than the mature males so they resort to using the spears? Actually, I read it more and you might be right.

[PaleoPhil]

How dare you challenge the accepted dogma! Next thing you know, you'll be giving credence to some of my past posts (heaven forfend). Here's another study involving Pruetz:

Insectivory of Savanna Chimpanzees
Bogart and Pruetz, 2010
http://iastate.academia.edu/JillPruetz/Papers/468221/Insectivory_in_savanna_chimpanzees_at_Fongoli_Senegal
P. robustus in South Africa has been associated with bone tools that have similar microwear patterns to those found on experimental termite-foraging bone tools (Backwell and d’Errico, 2001, 2008). It is not clear whether these were used to acquire termites from the mound or to consume the termite earth.

And here's some more good stuff:


http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/off-topic/spear-wielding-savannah-chimps-may-give-glimpse-of-human-past/


http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/hot-topics/my-experience-with-vitamin-d-supplements/msg14205/#msg14205

Spear-Wielding Savannah Chimps May Give Glimpse of Human Past
Spear-Wielding Chimps Studied
Chimpanzee tool usage: Hunting
http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/off-topic/spear-wielding-savannah-chimps-may-give-glimpse-of-human-past/msg41297/#msg41297

And the study referenced in the foundational post of this thread was referenced here by xylothrill: http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/for-first-time-chimps-seen-making-weapons-for-hunting!. Xylothrill was reportedly one of the founders of this forum.

ALL wild primates hunt. The only exception is most (though not yet all) of the modern version of humans, aka the (nearly) hairless apes:
http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/carnivorous-zero-carb-approach/all-wild-primates-hunt-and-eat-fauna/

[Chris]

First of all Vegans are "weird". I wouldn't waste your time hanging out, or associating with them. They seem to do things for political reasons, instead of healthy reasons. I can't believe the junk they put into their body's  (soy, ect). They kind of remind me of people who ride scooters! Weirdo's!

[PaleoPhil]

True, I suppose, but I try to find the silver lining. From vegans I learn which are the best plants to eat and how (for example, thoroughly rotted bananas are best--thank you Durianrider, you grump, LOL). We can learn even from the Divil 'imself (I'm not saying that DR is a divil, of course).

I find it fascinating that the most thoroughly despised and "disgusting" culinary practices tend to be some of the healthiest--rotted bananas, rotted meat, stinkfish, etc. That's one thing that Durianrider, Aajonus and open-minded Paleos have in common.

[Dorothy]

First of all Vegans are "weird". I wouldn't waste your time hanging out, or associating with them. They seem to do things for political reasons, instead of healthy reasons. I can't believe the junk they put into their body's  (soy, ect). They kind of remind me of people who ride scooters! Weirdo's!

I was a vegan a long time Chris and I didn't do it for political reasons. Not all vegans eat soy either. But I admit that I am a weirdo... even more of a weirdo than ever - for God's sake I eat raw meat!

Weird means simply not doing what most of the people around you do. In that case - raw paleo has to be the weirdest of the weird. 

And Phil's stinky foods - off the charts weird. But we can still love him anyway.

[Chris]

Well, that's good to know that some Vegan's don't do things for political reasons. I was being general in my experiences with vegans. I don't mind eccentric people. I do mind eccentric people who push their ideas and beliefs on others. We get enough of that out here in the LA area! I would never call "you" weird Dorothy, because you eat raw meat. What would that say about me? I guess most people would look at us as weird and wacko. I understand that, and I accept it. We are different and unique, and that should be celebrated. I have come to accept myself more and more as I get older. Most of us have tried/and lived with the American diet far too long, and it only brought us problems and health issues. I can't tell you how many different diets I have tried throughout the years, and they have all failed me. I guess that's what we all have in common as raw paleo's. Everybody is well versed, and have done countless hours of research on nutrition/diet's throughout the years. Heck, I've been researching nutrition/diet's/conditions for longer than I want to admit. I really feel like I found what I've been searching for my whole life. I'm very grateful for this website, and to be able to connect with people who live and preach the life as raw paleo's. By the way, I was just poking a little fun at vegan's, no offense!

[Dorothy]

I don't mind eccentric people. I do mind eccentric people who push their ideas and beliefs on others.

Me too! Big time.

I got into raw foods a long time ago so when this raw vegan thing materialized it threw me for a loop. Little did I understand what raw foods could be!

Heck, I've been researching nutrition/diet's/conditions for longer than I want to admit. I really feel like I found what I've been searching for my whole life. I'm very grateful for this website

You and me both brother!

I'm just always really careful about stereotyping or generalizing any one group. Vegan didn't hurt me - it helped me - this is just better. A lot of people come here from raw vegan - I feel a little like their one woman personal welcoming committee and protector. Don't take me too seriously either k? 

[Chris]

Don't take me too seriously either k? 

I promise, as long as you do the same with me. 

[Dorothy]

Deal!