Dried Herbs! Friend or Foe?

[Chris]

What's the viewpoint on dried herbs (seasonings)? Not exactly a "raw" food. I guess if your a traditionalist, you would have to say no way. I came from a variation of the Ayurvedic diet, before I became a Raw Paleo. So it took me a while, to shake the dried herb habit. I actually don't miss them at all anymore, or have a craving for them to be quite honest. I wasn't masking the flavor of the raw meat, at all. I have alway's preferred meat/ fish, to be cooked very rare. So the transition to an all "raw" diet wasn't hard for me at all. I was mostly using the herbs for their medicinal qualities (digestion, ect). I was curious to what you guy's/gal's thought regarding the subject?

[TylerDurden]

This topic should have been placed into the hot topics forum. Moved there now.

I reckon that raw, nondried herbs are sometimes useful(they did have a minimal effect on me in my pre-RPD days). Raw, dried herbs are likely not as useful but still effective. To be honest, though, I don't think that herbs are necessary on a 100% RPD diet.

[jessica]

what herbs in particular? leaves? berries? bulbs?  i think it makes a difference your source and how you use each kind.  i love dried herbs but can definitely tell between home dried, quality organic from the store and useless!  herbs can help if there is a lacking of nutrient in the diet as well as many medicinal benefits, including digestion.

i grow and forage herbs and include herbs in most meals.  as a spice or as part of a salad if fresh.  i also drink herbal teas so i totally have a bias.

[Chris]

jessica, I'm referring to the dried herb selection in most stores. That you sprinkle on your foods. Example curry, cayenne, ginger, garlic, pepper, countless mixtures, ect. These are organic, non irradiated, and probably heated to a point where they are no longer raw.  I'm not talking about "fresh" herbs at all. I'm sure those are fine and dandy. I don't use dry herbs anymore. I was just trying to gage the opinions of the forum, on how people view dried herbs in the raw paleo sense, and if they currently use them.

[Chris]

I never even thought about tea's (dried). They would be non paleo also. I imagine you could use fresh herbs, made as sun tea. Like I stated in a past post, the RPD is very subjected to personal preference. Some of us use the caveman emphasis more, and others put a modern spin on it.

[eveheart]

My take on dried herbs (seasonings) is unnecessary, and maybe a little on the foe side because I think that taste is a very important signal in digestion, so an agent that alters the taste of food can throw the digestion out of whack.

On the medicinal value of herbs, my thoughts are that the paleolithic period must have been pre-medicinal because much illness comes from the cooked diet of civilized man. I'm banking on RPD to have a health-restoring long-term benefit without the use of medicines. I may be right, I may be wrong.

[jessica]

curry is a leaf, pepper a seed, garlic a root and pepper a berry
i think they are wonderful additions to food and think that they impart some health benefits
i think you have to know what works for you in terms of if something is helpful to you or not.  for instance if you are a cold person and feel food stuck in your stomach, warming herbs and spices might help to add to your raw meals to help digestion and fire up the liver and circulation.  if you are sleepy in the morning add fresh greens to your food.  if you need a quick pick up or something tasty to drink brew some peppermint tea.  non irradiated and organic are generally ok, country of origin is usual my main concern with those, i try to avoid chinese as the quality is never as good and practices on their end are questionable.  frontier is a decent company as far as bulk goes

[Chris]

I agree with you eveheart, you make/made a Great point/argument. I'm impressed! Not to say I think your wrong jessica. It's just that eveheart and myself are Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach raw paleo's. So, I guess our views and approaches will be similar. Like you said jessica, were all a little different, and whatever works for each and everyone of us varies to a certain degree. I appreciate your input and opinion on the subject!

[Dorothy]

curry is a leaf, pepper a seed, garlic a root and pepper a berry
i think they are wonderful additions to food and think that they impart some health benefits
i think you have to know what works for you in terms of if something is helpful to you or not.  for instance if you are a cold person and feel food stuck in your stomach, warming herbs and spices might help to add to your raw meals to help digestion and fire up the liver and circulation.  if you are sleepy in the morning add fresh greens to your food.  if you need a quick pick up or something tasty to drink brew some peppermint tea.  non irradiated and organic are generally ok, country of origin is usual my main concern with those, i try to avoid chinese as the quality is never as good and practices on their end are questionable.  frontier is a decent company as far as bulk goes

Yep - I'm with you Jessica. Spices are plants! If you eat only animals - then maybe you won't like the variety, taste and wonderful affects that herbs can add to the plant based part of a raw paleo diet. I grow lots of different herbs in my garden. When I have more than I can use after harvesting I dehydrate them at low temperature. Roots, leaves, flowers, seeds. I consider most spices just to be foods. Today I was munching on some basil leaves - all by themselves out in the garden for a snack. I just go outside and choose my plants just by what looks, smells and tastes good to me at the moment. I also have no problem using my stores of raw powdered spices to add zest and flavor at times of the year when my choices are low. 

"The spice of life" is what herbs can add to my diet.

Herbs really are just plants and likely did have a place in what our ancestors' diets.

Zero and low carb is a choice of course, but that doesn't make it the only way to do raw paleo.

[eveheart]

I like the instincto (anopsology) viewpoint when it comes to taste. If the taste and smell of a food say, "Eat me!" then the food is right for the appetite. When I eat plant food, it is not to alter the taste of another food, as is done with seasonings. Sometimes the flavor blendings are harmless, but other times the blending ends up being A-1 Steak Sauce.

[Dorothy]

How people use herbs has great variability and just because some people make it into steak sauce, doesn't mean they have to be used that way.

[Alive]

Dried herbs would be good to take tramping / trekking for the light weight and ability to create an instant salad, and they would be good if your climate was too cold to grow greens in winter.

[Chris]

Dried herbs would be good to take tramping / trekking for the light weight and ability to create an instant salad, and they would be good if your climate was too cold to grow greens in winter.

I don't know how to respond to that comment? I assume you meant "camping"? Instant salad? Oh hell, I give up!

[Alive]

Over here we call wilderness hiking 'tramping' - as in I'm going off into the bush for a tramp : )
I haven't been tramping since becoming RP, but I reckon half a dozen lamb chops, along with some dried fruit, nuts and green dried herbs, soaked to revive them would keep me going great.
I like to eat whole fresh broccolis it's fun to rip the the branches with my teeth and give it a good chewing, but I guess that would be high carb for you folks 
Chris - it looks like your list is really spices, rather than herbs:

curry, cayenne, ginger, garlic, pepper,

I am very sensitive to these, so mostly avoid them except a little black pepper and turmeric. An RP person in the right part of the world would be able to consume these spices, so why deny the pleasure it may be giving you?

[jessica]

i would hope that while you are hiking there would be a vast variety of edible herbs that you would be able to identify and munch on !

[Chris]

Chris - it looks like your list is really spices, rather than herbs: I am very sensitive to these, so mostly avoid them except a little black pepper and turmeric. An RP person in the right part of the world would be able to consume these spices, so why deny the pleasure it may be giving you?

alive, the whole purpose of this topic was to gage everybody's opinion about the use of "dried spices and herbs". I'm not condemning the use of them at all. To each their own. I could care less if others had a spot for them in their pantry. I was just pointing out that;"most spices and dried herbs over here, are not true raw foods", and what there "true" place was for them in this diet (assuming you want to follow a 100% RFD".. I was just trying to get a gage of what others thought on the post regarding the subject. That's pretty much it. I thought eveheart put it best in her post above (at least for me that is). The greatest thing about this post is that we all follow to some degree a RFD. The negative, is that there are all different forms and variations on this diet. So what is good for one of us, not necessary good for another. Like I said, I was just trying to get opinions, and I respect yours and your choices. About the language barrier, my apologies. I was trying to make sense of it, The "Oh hell, I give up" comment was my way of bring humor to the situation. No offense!

[Dorothy]

Chris - most spices you buy in the store are irradiated and far from raw - that is very true. I've been growing my own cayenne peppers, ginger, tumeric, garlic, onions and a whole long list more. They have a much different effect when you grow them and then dry on low heat and powder them yourself. They then would be still technically raw?... in that they have never been exposed to high temps.

I personally think that the main problem with many spices is that spices were one of the first foods that were allowed to be irradiated. That way, they can stay in storage forever - so most spices from the store are ancient AND they are often half fillers. There's no way of telling how much of that bottle is actually the herb and what the fillers are. The spice industry is one of the worst when it comes to standards for health.  If you make your own spices - you'd be surprised on how different they taste and what a different effect they have on the system.

[Alive]

OK Chris, I didn't realise many store herbs and spices were irradiated.

How about from an organic shop - surely they would be OK?

[jessica]

frontier co-op does not irradiate, and labels as such, they are the commonmost organic distributor as far as i know, especially for bulk, i would venture to say most health food stores(including wfm) source their herbs from frontier.

[Dorothy]

Frontier is truly much better than what you generally can get and of course organic is never irradiated. I don't know if Frontier uses fillers or not - if anyone doesn't it would probably be that company as they are one of the most conscious brands out there. You might even do better at a little local herb store. But even compared to Frontier there is nothing like making your own raw spices. I really didn't think it would be that different - but raw fresh dried and powdered is much stronger and is quite different than anything you can buy in the store. I open my jar of garlic and it almost knocks me down the aroma with the fresh oils so strong.  I have to use about a tenth of what I would have to use of store-bought - even frontier. At first I thought it would too much work - but so little goes so very far!

[Alive]

Good point Jessica!

[Chris]

I just want to point out that just because a herb/spice is not  irradiated, doesn't mean it's raw. If it doesn't say raw, you have to assume it's not.

[PaleoPhil]

Aren't "herbs" and "spices" really just "plant foods/vegetables" that haven't been thoroughly domesticated yet, and thus still have more of their original beneficial effects that humans haven't effed with yet?

[Dorothy]

I just want to point out that just because a herb/spice is not  irradiated, doesn't mean it's raw. If it doesn't say raw, you have to assume it's not.

Chris - spices aren't raw! Never in bottles from the store are they raw. What I have been talking about is making your own "spices". Seems like it's hard or complicated - but not really. Just buy some fresh herbs, dry them and then powder. Wallah!. Done. Raw spices. Yum!

[Dorothy]

Aren't "herbs" and "spices" really just "plant foods/vegetables" that haven't been thoroughly domesticated yet, and thus still have more of their original beneficial effects that humans haven't effed with yet?

As usual you make the most salient points Phil. Some of the very best herbs/spices are nothing more than wild plants that are the most powerful and tasty. Unlike most fruits and vegetables - the herbs and spices haven't usually gone through the same rigorous hybridization processes. Great point there.