Author Topic: The downside of raw paleo, tiredness?  (Read 37623 times)

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Offline Chris

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Re: The downside of raw paleo, tiredness?
« Reply #50 on: August 04, 2012, 02:14:22 pm »

But please - stop blaming raw meat for your problems on a forum filled with people that have nothing but wonderful experiences with it. Other people with emotional problems that could be helped with the raw paleo diet might be reading your posts.
Hallelujah! Thank you Dorothy! Charlie, you getting this Bro? I'll put it simply for you. If you don't want to eat raw meats/foods than why are you posting in this forum? We don't get paid enough to listen to your BS here, night in and night out! Get with the program, and take some responsibility for once in your life. How do you expect this forum to cure you, when you don't even follow the RPD anymore? That's if you even tried it in the first place. If you have issues with this diet, stop wasting your time, and ours, and please move on to something that better works for you! Nobody can help you here, if you don't help yourself. Do you just want self pity, or for people to feel sorry for poor little Charlie? Because life is unfair to you? Come on bud, get with the program. You have all these great, intelligent, and knowledgeable people trying to help you, and your just pissing it away! The more you post, the more convinced I am that you are a TROLL! Think about that for a second! You don't sound like someone who wants to be helped! Nobody is going to fix you, you have to fix YOURSELF!

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: The downside of raw paleo, tiredness?
« Reply #51 on: August 04, 2012, 10:04:16 pm »
Chris... that was pretty harsh... can you still edit your post or delete it?  I feel it's not giving Charlie the support he needs right now.
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Re: The downside of raw paleo, tiredness?
« Reply #52 on: August 04, 2012, 11:13:56 pm »
Chris, Charlie has a mental issue, likely can't control himself and while it's probably futile to try and help him with our conventional advice it won't do us any great harm to try. After we've exhausted our ideas, if they've proven unhelpful, charlie will disappear when he doesn't get any more attention. I dated a girl that had all his same attributes when I was in high school. Tried to help her with every good piece of advice and example I could to no avail. She's currently in electroshock therapy and has lost custody of her child because she has a genuine mental illness. Even though she seems like she's in control of her self, she's not, wish I knew how to help these types but I don't. You being condescending with him is like insulting someone with down syndrome, it's just in super poor taste. I'm drop dead serious, dude probably can't help it. His body would probably fix itself if he could drop all drug use and stay with raw animal and plant foods only, but the chances of that are pretty slim. Also you're on the fast track to alienating people around here. Loosen up and live and let live. This forum belongs to the mods and they're ok with cooked stuff so long as you keep it in hot topics and don't pretend that eating cooked foods is a healthy thing to do, most of us know it is not, or recognize that there is a transition stage, no matter how long it takes. Just chillax a bit and try to focus on the good stuff, then you won't attract so much negativity. When eve recommended you avoid posts that don't resonate with you, you claimed you were already there, but the evidence is to the contrary.

Offline Dorothy

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Re: The downside of raw paleo, tiredness?
« Reply #53 on: August 05, 2012, 02:15:52 am »
Hi Chris. I think that both you and I are trying to make the point that Charlie has not and is not really giving raw paleo a chance.

This is now the third thread that I have counted that Charlie has started to blame raw meat for his problems. There might be more that I missed. He has said that he can't eat raw muscle meats without his symptoms getting worse but that raw organs and high meat and raw produce are good, yet he is now back to eating junk food.

Charlie could easily create a truly raw paleo diet that would support him without any raw muscle meat. I rarely eat red muscle meat myself and I still consider my diet to be paleo. Everyone's needs within raw paleo are going to be different depending on not only their dna, past medical history and past diet - but also their lifestyle! If you take drugs, it might affect how certain foods affect you.

I feel a need out of compassion for people with the kinds of problems that Charlie is suffering from to make it crystal clear to anyone else that might be suffering that we have been through this for awhile with Charlie. He has been given some great advice on diet and alternative therapies as well as how Ritalin does cause the symptoms he is suffering from and that it is highly addictive. He does not seem to want to stop taking the drug(s) or to give the suggestion on how to eat raw paleo within the parameters of his sensitivities or any alternative therapies a try. 

I feel like I need to be blunt (maybe not quite as blunt as Chris ;) ) and say for the sake of others that might be helped that it is my impression that Charlie is looking to use raw meat as his scapegoat so that he can keep on with his addictions to drugs and junk food. Believe me - I understand it! This raw paleo diet aint exactly easy. I think about how hard it was for me to break the addiction of just sugar and coffee and then think about what it would be like to have to come off of things much more powerfully addicting and Charlie is suffering from clinical depression to boot which makes giving up stimulants extremely difficult. It is true that Charlie might have little control at this point. That's why I suggested to Charlie earlier to try to find some in-person support in giving up his addictions. Family members - support groups - put himself into a detox center - that kind of thing.

Charlie, if there is any way you can, please give up all the drugs and anything at all that can strongly affect your mind and is not considered a raw paleo food source.

Please give eating raw organs, high meat, fruits and vegetables exclusively along with the suggestions on how to detox a fair trial.

Every new thread that Charlie makes saying that raw paleo is creating his problems I am going to simply post that it is not the case. I really feel for Charlie. It's just that I also care for others that might get the wrong impression from these threads he starts.



 

 

Offline Alive

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Re: The downside of raw paleo, tiredness?
« Reply #54 on: August 05, 2012, 06:42:28 am »
My personal experience has been that eating sugar and grains makes me retarded in so many mental and physical ways that this modern eating behavior switches me over to another despicable personality. The hardest thing to understand is why I chose to go there so often, but I guess its just another addiction - escape by self induced lobotomy . In my case a simple RAVF diet has easily and quickly reversed these tendencies and revealed flickers of hope and clarity, a future worth living for.

I assume therefore that my own mental issues have been symptoms of diet related metabolic dis-ease.

However we also have to recognise that it is possible for Charlie's root cause not to be diet and that there may not be a cure to be found on this site? Didn't someone mention on this site that when the facility they worked at fed the patients high starch food they became semi-sedated and were much calmer and easier to handle?
« Last Edit: August 05, 2012, 07:52:41 am by alive »

Offline RawZi

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Re: The downside of raw paleo, tiredness?
« Reply #55 on: August 05, 2012, 03:41:27 pm »
    My bones are stronger.

    I can wake up. I was practically comatose for a while before RAFs.
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Offline raw

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Re: The downside of raw paleo, tiredness?
« Reply #56 on: August 05, 2012, 10:16:29 pm »
Dear Rawzi, ur each and every posts are power house of knowledge. Glad to see u on RPD again
I hope Charlee is doing great. He really needs  our help and that would be the best, if we had some type of RPD clinic.
bugs or country chickens

Offline Chris

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Re: The downside of raw paleo, tiredness?
« Reply #57 on: August 06, 2012, 05:32:55 am »
Chris... that was pretty harsh. I feel it's not giving Charlie the support he needs right now.

Harsh? Try the truth. That's the problem with certain people/members on this site. They can't handle the TRUTH. How long are you going to go on with Charlie? He makes this stupid post, than disappears. He doesn't even have a normal dialog with people who respond to his posts. If he really is mentally ill, you can't help him. Period! If he's not, he's a troll! If you want to play his game, go right ahead. This post is on a public forum, so i have every right to voice my opinion. I suggest you take your concerns and advice privately. PM him! Or is that too much trouble?

He's not Raw Paleo anymore. I doubt he ever was to be honest. If he really wanted your help, he would be working with the forum and it's members. He's not. He doesn't even want to help himself out, so what makes you so sure you can help him out? You can't make him do something he won't or doesn't want to do. How well do you really know Charlie?

Hey, if you don't like my opinion on the matter/subject. Fine. Just ignore it! Believe me I won't loose any sleep over it. I'm stating my opinion on a public post/forum. I have my own opinions and views. I'm not a robot people. I'm not here to cater to, or stroke peoples egos on this site. I tell it how it is. I guess some of you just can't handle an honest opinion? When you make a post, be prepared for different viewpoints.

Offline eveheart

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Re: The downside of raw paleo, tiredness?
« Reply #58 on: August 06, 2012, 05:57:52 am »
An interesting dynamic of any forum is that the responses to the original poster's topic answer thousands of similar unasked questions. With that in mind, it is not necessary for the original poster to follow or benefit from the advice.

In each specific case, criticism of the original poster does not advance the advice that another sufferer may need. It helps to ask yourself some questions before posting a reply:

Is my response kind?
Do I have relevant experience or useful advice for the OP?
Would my experience and advice be useful to someone reading this thread in the future?

Sarcasm conveys contempt. Sarcasm might make someone else feel badly, but the damage it does to its author is the deepest cut. Remember the old saying, "If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all."
"I intend to live forever; so far, so good." -Steven Wright, comedian

Offline Ferocious

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Re: The downside of raw paleo, tiredness?
« Reply #59 on: August 06, 2012, 06:47:27 am »
Harsh? Try the truth. That's the problem with certain people/members on this site. They can't handle the TRUTH. How long are you going to go on with Charlie? He makes this stupid post, than disappears. He doesn't even have a normal dialog with people who respond to his posts. If he really is mentally ill, you can't help him. Period! If he's not, he's a troll! If you want to play his game, go right ahead. This post is on a public forum, so i have every right to voice my opinion. I suggest you take your concerns and advice privately. PM him! Or is that too much trouble?

He's not Raw Paleo anymore. I doubt he ever was to be honest. If he really wanted your help, he would be working with the forum and it's members. He's not. He doesn't even want to help himself out, so what makes you so sure you can help him out? You can't make him do something he won't or doesn't want to do. How well do you really know Charlie?

Hey, if you don't like my opinion on the matter/subject. Fine. Just ignore it! Believe me I won't loose any sleep over it. I'm stating my opinion on a public post/forum. I have my own opinions and views. I'm not a robot people. I'm not here to cater to, or stroke peoples egos on this site. I tell it how it is. I guess some of you just can't handle an honest opinion? When you make a post, be prepared for different viewpoints.
I completely agree with everything you've said. As far as I know, there has not been a post by the OP asking for any kind of help. It seems everyone is just assuming things, and the OP is just being vague.

I honestly have absolutely no sympathy for him.

Offline Charlie4444

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Re: The downside of raw paleo, tiredness?
« Reply #60 on: August 06, 2012, 07:51:34 am »
So it seems that most people don't associate tiredness, and mental apathy to eating lots of raw meat.  I wasn't sure, that's why I created posted this question. 

Offline Dorothy

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Re: The downside of raw paleo, tiredness?
« Reply #61 on: August 06, 2012, 08:12:07 am »
No Charlie, most do not. That is a particular issue for you. Even if a couple of others did here or there it would certainly not be the general experience. Most people feel much better in general, all around.

From reading all that you have read over time in other threads as well I would suspect it is primarily because of the Ritalin as you yourself stated that the tiredness and social inabilities started after taking it and your symptoms correlate perfectly with what the drug does to people.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: The downside of raw paleo, tiredness?
« Reply #62 on: August 06, 2012, 12:02:37 pm »
So it seems that most people don't associate tiredness, and mental apathy to eating lots of raw meat.  I wasn't sure, that's why I created posted this question. 

Going very low-carb definitely creates some tiredness/sluggishness for a while.  That usually passes after a while, though, depending on the person.

I'm not really sure that's what you are experiencing though.

Offline Ferocious

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Re: The downside of raw paleo, tiredness?
« Reply #63 on: August 06, 2012, 07:42:08 pm »
Going very low-carb definitely creates some tiredness/sluggishness for a while.  That usually passes after a while, though, depending on the person.

I'm not really sure that's what you are experiencing though.
Can you explain exactly why that is? Does it have something to do with glucose?

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: The downside of raw paleo, tiredness?
« Reply #64 on: August 06, 2012, 08:36:53 pm »
I would explore the Very Low Carb angle... the adjustment phase.
It's quite common if you are getting into this VLC.
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: The downside of raw paleo, tiredness?
« Reply #65 on: August 07, 2012, 01:27:08 am »
Can you explain exactly why that is? Does it have something to do with glucose?

Yes, it takes a few weeks for most people to start burning fat efficiently.  Until then, they are sluggish.

Offline Dorothy

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Re: The downside of raw paleo, tiredness?
« Reply #66 on: August 07, 2012, 01:53:41 am »
The thing with Charlie is that he had the symptoms before getting into raw paleo, hoping that it would help him. It's not only sluggishness that he talks about. He says it makes him anti-social and affects his clinical depression adversely. He has said in other places that eating raw meat makes his symptoms worse - not that it caused them to begin with. He said his symptoms began after taking Ritalin. He also says that organs and high meat do not have the same effect.

This new thread by Charlie imho is just another way of trying to blame raw paleo for something else that he doesn't want to admit to or deal with directly. It's easier if he can blame raw paleo because it's easier to give up on raw paleo than to stop taking Ritalin and other mind altering substances and to do a full detox.

Offline RawZi

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Re: The downside of raw paleo, tiredness?
« Reply #67 on: August 07, 2012, 09:44:07 am »
Dear Rawzi, ur each and every posts are power house of knowledge. Glad to see u on RPD again

    Thank you, raw.  I got a bad piece of heart, nutrient deficient or something. It got me wondering if eating meat was worth it.  I tried fruit three weeks.  I tolerated bananas rather well stomach-wise, head etc.  I gained unneeded weight and I started to wrinkle etc.  I need to be healthy, and I find that easier here.

    I still like some things about veg-heads who do it for the animals.  I'm collecting farm animal pets.. and I'm not sure how well that will go over here.
"Genuine truth angers people in general because they don't know what to do with the energy generated by a glimpse of reality." Greg W. Goodwin

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: The downside of raw paleo, tiredness?
« Reply #68 on: August 07, 2012, 09:59:06 am »
    Thank you, raw.  I got a bad piece of heart, nutrient deficient or something. It got me wondering if eating meat was worth it.  I tried fruit three weeks.  I tolerated bananas rather well stomach-wise, head etc.  I gained unneeded weight and I started to wrinkle etc.  I need to be healthy, and I find that easier here.

    I still like some things about veg-heads who do it for the animals.  I'm collecting farm animal pets.. and I'm not sure how well that will go over here.

I will always defend your right to love the furry creatures.  I go months and months without eating meat, simply having fish and shellfish for my animal foods.  It works great. 

I mainly see land animal meat as useful for correcting serious deficiencies, and mainly the organ meats as being the useful parts.

Offline RawZi

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Re: The downside of raw paleo, tiredness?
« Reply #69 on: August 07, 2012, 10:26:54 am »
    :) Thanks, Cherimoya!

    I had a bad experience. A "friend" apparently ate my pets before (chickens/rabbits), like twenty years ago during my veg decades.  I liked them (the animals). He was not a Rawist person though. I guess I have nothing to be concerned of now.  We're definitely different.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 10:35:15 am by RawZi »
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Offline Projectile Vomit

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Re: The downside of raw paleo, tiredness?
« Reply #70 on: August 08, 2012, 12:32:19 am »
I go months and months without eating meat, simply having fish and shellfish for my animal foods.

How is the muscle meat of fish and shellfish not 'meat'?

Offline Chris

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Re: The downside of raw paleo, tiredness?
« Reply #71 on: August 08, 2012, 03:12:13 am »
Hi Charlie,

You probably didn't expect to hear from me, following my last post. I'm not going to tell you what to do or how to do it. I'm not as well schooled as some of the others regarding curing/over coming your symptoms/concerns. I'm not here to preach to you either! I'm sorry if I seemed a little too abrasive in my posts to you recently. I guess I just don't fully understand your thought process. But, that's OK. So I apologize if I came across as telling you what to do. I understand your on your own path to discovery, and you have to go at your own pace. I know there are a lot of knowledgeable people you can draw upon in this forum if you choose. I'm sure you already know, there are a lot of people who are willing to take the time and help you out. If you decide to take that route, I know you would be well supported with ideas/suggestions.

I know you said the RPD makes you aggressive when you were on it. Not to argue with you, but most people (in this forum) on the RPD have the opposite effect. I think most people are curious/concerned to your exact path/diet, as to why you are getting those negative results.  I hope you decide to give the RPD another chance when your ready too. I actually started cold turkey, and I went through some growing pains as well. There is a transition period when your body goes from running on glucose to ketones as its main energy source. I don't recall if your transition was like mine, or you transitioned at a slower pace? Here are some of my experiences when i started on the RPD. I felt tired, had little energy at times (drained), had sugar cravings, and became constipated on top of that. It was all part of the detox and change your body makes, when your body shifts from glucose to ketones. It's a tough transition, I won't lie to you. But, it's all worth it if you are disciplined and stick to it. But, each and every individual is different. I'm not saying you need to choose my path. Because as you know, all of us in this forum our on our own very unique paths to full fill our nutrition and health requirements. You just have to pick the path that works for you and your body. But, let me also state that I believe in the RPD more than any other diet I have ever been on. You have to believe in it, in order for it to work for you. That's the Secret! When your ready, I encourage you to give it another shot.

I like that you have reached out, and extended yourself to the forum with your struggles. Because that's the only way you can get the true answers to all your questions. I applaud you for that. It takes a lot of courage and fortitude to do that in a public forum. The majority of people here are not here to judge you (myself included). There seems to be a lot of members that care about you and your well being, and want to see you get the help and support that you need/desire. Only you can make that decision for yourself, and I hope you won't feel like anyone's telling you what to do. Look at it as suggestions. Your going to get a lot of them if you open yourself up. It's up to you to decide what's right and best for you. Remember, you have control on what advise you follow, and how you want to implement it. It's always up to you to decide for yourself.

I'm not posting this to persuade you one way or another. I just hope you look at the situation with an open mind, gather up as much info as you possibly can find/get, than make an informed decision in the best interest for yourself. Once you start to fix/work on yourself, everything else will fall into place with your life. If you push it when your not ready, you will only frustrate yourself. Which causes anger and resentment (IMO). The ball is in your court charlie, it always has been. Make what you want out of this post, messages in the forum, or suggestions from other people. Take advantage of all the wealth of information/knowledge that is out there. I know you desire to get/be better. The hardest part is always reaching out. I hope you find the answers and solutions your looking for. Good Luck in what ever direction, decision, or path you decide to take!

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: The downside of raw paleo, tiredness?
« Reply #72 on: August 08, 2012, 11:43:49 am »
How is the muscle meat of fish and shellfish not 'meat'?

I just find that most Americans call the flesh of air-breathing animals 'meat', and the flesh of non-air-breathing animals 'fish'.

Offline Charlie4444

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Re: The downside of raw paleo, tiredness?
« Reply #73 on: August 14, 2012, 11:36:41 am »
It happened again.  I had a little raw meat after eating a cooked paleo diet and my brain shut off again.  All the work, friends, girls, projects, ideas, I needed to think about today, all failed because raw meat for some reason zones me out!  I find it hard to believe that so little people know what I'm talking about.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: The downside of raw paleo, tiredness?
« Reply #74 on: August 14, 2012, 12:25:51 pm »
It happened again.  I had a little raw meat after eating a cooked paleo diet and my brain shut off again.  All the work, friends, girls, projects, ideas, I needed to think about today, all failed because raw meat for some reason zones me out!  I find it hard to believe that so little people know what I'm talking about.

Have you ever tried just eating a hunk of raw animal fat instead, like suet, backfat, or a large piece of brisket fat?  Do you know if that would have the same effect?  I'm curious.

 

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