So, I just got a cat...

[Wolf]

or rather, I was given a cat as a birthday present.  I'm not really a cat person, I'm much more of a dog(well, canine) person, and I didn't even want a pet in the first place because it's hard enough just feeding myself...

But now I have a cat.  now I have to feed it.  but I can't make it eat commercial pet food, not when I'm here trying to eat a healthy raw carnivorous diet.  But what do I feed it?  I mean, I figure lots of meat/organs/bones from beef, chicken, and fish.. but does anyone have any suggestions for a good healthy raw cat diet?  I'm planning on eventually buying live mice from the pet store (that are normally used to feed snakes) and letting her catch and eat them, if I can get her to.  But would a diet of pure mice bought from the pet store suffice for a cat? 

She's not a kitten, but not a full grown cat, either, probably a couple months old.  She's some non-shedding breed and supposed to be an indoor cat I guess.  She just had surgery to get her spayed a few days ago, or like a week ago, at most.  She also happens to have a stuffy nose and is sneezing a lot, which I heard makes it difficult to feed them since they rely heavily on smell to eat.. and I'm pretty sure she can't smell much right now.  I've already tried feeding her some salmon, tuna, beef, and beef liver, none of which she's really eating, but she will eat the dry cat food that was given to me with her.  I'm letting her eat it for now, because she hasn't been eating much of anything since I got her a couple days ago, and I'd rather her not starve to death, but I want to switch her to eating raw meat as soon as possible.  Or at least wet canned food, since I've read they need a moisture rich diet to be healthy, and don't drink much water.  I just figure it's probably going to be really difficult right now while her nose is all stuffed up..

But any suggestions would be very welcome, thank you

[wodgina]

or rather, I was given a cat as a birthday present.  I'm not really a cat person, I'm much more of a dog(well, canine) person, and I didn't even want a pet in the first place because it's hard enough just feeding myself...

But now I have a cat.  now I have to feed it.  but I can't make it eat commercial pet food, not when I'm here trying to eat a healthy raw carnivorous diet.  But what do I feed it?  I mean, I figure lots of meat/organs/bones from beef, chicken, and fish.. but does anyone have any suggestions for a good healthy raw cat diet?  I'm planning on eventually buying live mice from the pet store (that are normally used to feed snakes) and letting her catch and eat them, if I can get her to.  But would a diet of pure mice bought from the pet store suffice for a cat? 

She's not a kitten, but not a full grown cat, either, probably a couple months old.  She's some non-shedding breed and supposed to be an indoor cat I guess.  She just had surgery to get her spayed a few days ago, or like a week ago, at most.  She also happens to have a stuffy nose and is sneezing a lot, which I heard makes it difficult to feed them since they rely heavily on smell to eat.. and I'm pretty sure she can't smell much right now.  I've already tried feeding her some salmon, tuna, beef, and beef liver, none of which she's really eating, but she will eat the dry cat food that was given to me with her.  I'm letting her eat it for now, because she hasn't been eating much of anything since I got her a couple days ago, and I'd rather her not starve to death, but I want to switch her to eating raw meat as soon as possible.  Or at least wet canned food, since I've read they need a moisture rich diet to be healthy, and don't drink much water.  I just figure it's probably going to be really difficult right now while her nose is all stuffed up..

But any suggestions would be very welcome, thank you

Yep Don't go near the thing

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/ipad/study-draws-link-between-common-parasite-in-cats-to-suicide/story-fnbzs1v0-1226453086943

[Projectile Vomit]

I'm a firm believer in turning down gifts that I don't want. I'd thank the people who offered it for their (assumed) good intentions, and give the cat back to them to deal with. I wouldn't keep it.

[Wolf]

7 times more likely to commit suicide?  well I have a 0% chance to commit suicide, and 0 times 7 is still 0%!   

As for returning the gift to the person who got it for me, that person happens to be in jail.  so I don't think giving it to them is really an option.

Anyways, I don't mind keeping the cat, I like cats, I just don't know much about them and I prefer dogs.  I just don't have a job right now so affording food might be a slight problem since my own food tends to be very expensive.  but if I can get her eating raw meat, then feeding her my leftovers wouldn't be as much of a problem.  Mice are cheap to buy, too.  And eventually I'll get a new job.

[eveheart]

My late cat was a pound rescue - an abandoned house cat. She was used to eating commercial cat food. I tried to switch her to B.A.R.F, but her habits were already set on dried cat food. Even when she caught birds or rodents, she would play with them and never eat them.

I got a lot of information about preparing your own cat B.A.R.F. from Yahoo! groups. There are many companies (besides Slankers) that sell frozen mixtures online and in pet stores. If your cat is adaptable enough to make the switch, go for it.

[wodgina]

7 times more likely to commit suicide?  well I have a 0% chance to commit suicide, and 0 times 7 is still 0%!   

As for returning the gift to the person who got it for me, that person happens to be in jail.  so I don't think giving it to them is really an option.

Anyways, I don't mind keeping the cat, I like cats, I just don't know much about them and I prefer dogs.  I just don't have a job right now so affording food might be a slight problem since my own food tends to be very expensive.  but if I can get her eating raw meat, then feeding her my leftovers wouldn't be as much of a problem.  Mice are cheap to buy, too.  And eventually I'll get a new job.

Wait until the virus takes hold and your babbling and eating flowers on the sidewalk

anyways thats a really manipulative present. I bet my life he got that cat for free.

[goodsamaritan]

Wait until the virus takes hold and your babbling and eating flowers on the sidewalk

anyways thats a really manipulative present. I bet my life he got that cat for free.

There is a real danger of being parasite manipulated by cats' parasites.
I've met cat addicts whose homes were littered with cats they can never refuse and are enslaved by cats.

[Alive]

Hi Wolf, if you just feed it what you eat it should be very happy!!

[cherimoya_kid]

I'd suggest mixing a little raw meat in with the commercial cat food, and slowly changing the ratio over several months until it's mostly raw meat and only a little commercial food.  Eventually, you can stop adding commercial food altogether.

[Alive]

You also need to ask if you want to be the cats servant for the next 10-20 years in exchange for its companionship - some people think this is a great trade, but personally I am really sick of our cat yowling to say hello, be fed, let in, let out, wants a drink, wants to get in bed to sleep with us etc. My kids love him but to me he's annoying!

[Wolf]

Wait until the virus takes hold and your babbling and eating flowers on the sidewalk

anyways thats a really manipulative present. I bet my life he got that cat for free.

well then you're dead, because the cat cost $450.  They also gave me a bag full of stuff with the cat including litter box, litter, bag of food, toy, a bed, and a scratching post, bowls for food and water, all that jazz.  It's a very pretty cat, pretty cute and very affectionate, she likes to curl up on my lap and just lay there.  She doesn't meow much and when she does it's very quiet.  She came with a collar that has a bell on it which is louder than she is.

[wodgina]

Ok sounds good.

It's good to have company.

[Dorothy]

Here's my two-cents Wolf: If you can't afford to feed the cat well, you might want to think of re-homing it. Our leftovers aren't enough food for a cat so I can't imagine how yours will be. Raising or buying mice to feed the cat is a big responsibility for an animal that you did not choose to get yourself. A non-allergenic breed you could re-home easily. You could specify that you will only re-home it to someone willing to feed it at least Ziwi Peak brand food. The dog food is the same as the cat food and cheaper btw. I buy the really big bag and figured out that it costs about 75 cents a day per cat - it would cost more buying the small bag. Any form of raw food is not going to be cheap, but Ziwi is the easiest. It's air-dried raw grass-fed venison (only get the venison). It's  what I feed my two feral cats that adopted and trained me to feed them and rub them down twice a day and primarily what I give my two little dogs. 

It is my strong feeling that no one should ever have a pet that they can't afford right now in the present to feed well and never accept an animal as a present that you don't really want 100%. I didn't ask for my two cats - but I fell deeply in love with them and know that they are meant to be with me - they were born here to be with me. An animal is the worst kind of present that anyone could ever give to another person. Your cat would be better off with someone who will truly love it. Cats are social animals that live in colonies. It is not kind to keep a cat if you don't have other cats and are not going to be a really good colony mate for it. Your cat will have a lonely unbalanced life if you are just providing space and not deep connection. If you don't love the cat and really truly want the full responsibility for over a decade like Alive said - it would be best for the cat to find her a better home earlier rather than later.

[Wolf]

I'm not going to reject the cat, or ignore it, or hate it, or abuse it, or anything like that.  I love all animals, especially carnivores.  I just -prefer- dogs.   But I like cats, too.  I just don't quite understand them they way I understand dogs.  And I'm not -only- going to feed the cat my leftovers.  I won't starve it.  I'm going to feed it plenty all it needs.  I just tend to have leftover meat that I don't eat because I only really like to eat it raw if it's super fresh, and if it gets just a little brown I won't eat it.  Which happens in like a day. 

I might look into this ziwi peak brand food though.  The only problem is that it sounds very dry, and I read that cats need a diet high in moisture because they don't drink a lot of water.  Her nose seems to be a little bit clearer today than it was before, and I was able to get her to eat some cooked chicken and cooked tuna(because that's all we really had), as well as the raw juice in the bottom of the jar my steak was in.   She really liked that juice, so I don't think it will be too difficult to get her eating raw meat, though when i did cut off a small piece of my raw steak and tried to feed it to her, she wouldn't really eat it.. chewed on it a bit, but wouldn't eat it. 

Also, I thought cats were solitary creatures?  At least some big cats are, I think.  Either way, she won't be lacking in attention since there's three people who live here who are all willing to play with her and give her attention (including me).  We already made her three new toys today and ran all around the house giving her a workout by chasing us dragging her toys around.. she really seemed to like them!  hopefully I can get her chasing mice, next..

[Adora]

I have a cat I just switched to RAF. She loves it and is thriving. I have always had a cat or 2, and I have never had desire for more, because I am clean and neat and bunches of animals in a home means competition for territory and bad potty behaviors. That doesn't happen with 1 cat. My cat dosent have a litter box, she always goes out. In the dead of winter I do make a box with some pine litter, but she hardly uses it.
      She hunts for mice, birds, squirrels, and rabbits. I feed her about 1/2 cup of meat morning and night. She rarely finishes it at first, but she has lunch from her left overs. She gets the scraps/left overs from me. She likes all meats, fish, fat, and skin. I chunk the tougher stuff into bite size chunks. She can chew through the tough, but she drags it all over, so the cutting makes clean up easier. She won't eat dairy or egg. Well she doesn't prefer it. She didn't like RAF at first so I did starve her a day or 2.  I put a few chunks if neat in her bowl and she didn't eat it for hours. Then, I threw out the old bits and gave a few new ones 2x/day. By day 3 she was loving it. You could probably feed 1/day, and I know she would eat egg and dairy if she was hungry or I ran out of meat. I have small portions of hamburger in ziplocks in my freezer. When I'm running low I leave it out overnight and she has that. I think we have vey lucky cats.

[Wolf]

Thank you!  I thought about the starvation method, but then I read something about not letting your cat go hungry because it could go into some sort of liver failure and die.. because their livers have a hard time processing their fat or something, and if they go into starvation mode to burn their own body fat, their livers get overwhelmed or something?  I dunno if it's all true or not, but it made me wary of not feeding her for a few days.  We also haven't been letting her outside or anything, we brought her out for a bit one night but she doesn't seem very street smart or anything and I'm afraid of her getting ran over by a car..

Also read somewhere that ground food is not as good either because it hits their stomach too fast before it can develop enough acid (that would normally build up while the cat is busy chewing up and ripping apart a carcass) and causes some slight digestive problems.. dunno if that's true or not, either

[Adora]

I didn't starve her. She had food available, I gave her time to really work up to it. You don't have to let her out. It hey get more exercise, but there is a risk. We just lost my kitty's brother: (. My choice would be to risk death and be free to go out, so that's the choice I extend to her. She only gets a little ground meat. It has to be better than kibble.

[intrigued]

I have 2 dogs and a cat that I feed almost all raw.  I stuck with the 80/10/5/5 method that says give roughly 80% meat, 10% bone, 10% organs (at most half being liver).  It's a very general guideline on where to start, and it's by no means an "at every meal this is the ratio you need to use".  Do what's best for them.  If they have runny stool, add more bone, if they're chalky and white, less.  Red meats are great and should be included, but it's harder to find bones they'll crunch through, so I feed a fair amount of chicken (bone-in chicken breasts are a pretty good place to start). 

My cat also goes outside and eats quite a few birds/mice/etc.  The dogs get leftovers sometimes.  Try as much different stuff as possible, beef and pork and chicken and turkey, etc. etc.  I imagine your leftovers will be great quality and you'll have one happy cat.  Oh, and as far as volume, I think it was somewhere near like 4% of body weight as food a day (2-4% for dogs), I could be mis-remembering that, but it sounds about right, so maybe 5oz a day for an 8lb cat.

Definitely don't do the starvation method, it works great for dogs, but is potentially dangerous for really stubborn cats.  The gradual food replacement mentioned above is a great method.  Eventually you may find the cat does well with a meal a day, but at that young an age I would split it through maybe 3-5 meals a day.  When it's 6 months or so maybe move down to 2-3 and at a year stick with 2 or try 1.  You may want to stick with 2 to prevent the fatty liver disease (feline hepatic lipidosis) you were mentioning, but many I've talked to don't find it necessary. 

I found this yahoo group helpful when I was starting - http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/ - you may not need this support as I ventured into feeding pets raw before I ever looked into eating raw myself.  If you have any other specific questions, let me know.

[Dorothy]

Sounds like you have made a real commitment to your cat although she was a present you didn't ask for and you will give her a good home. Like you I am a dog person and couldn't believe when cats adopted me - I had to learn from scratch and listen carefully to them. Domesticated cats live in colonies and rub against each other (very important to them) - they live in families. Compared to dogs they do seem solitary - but they really aren't.

Cats need fresh meat and won't eat meat that is the least bit old either. They are nothing like dogs in this way. When it comes to feeding everything is relative. I can't leave fresh meat outside for the cats that own me - but they also hunt. Cats do drink water when they have a diet that necessitates it. I've watched them often. They also like running water so some people will get bowls that have water that comes out in a little waterfall.

Cats that are allowed outside have an average lifespan of two years - so it's good that you are keeping her as a housecat.

[Wolf]

Yeah, I'm going to make sure that at least for now, there's always something available for her to eat if she wants to.  I tried cracking open an egg in a bowl, and she was eating it, so there's a start for some raw protein and some good nutrition in the yolk.  She didn't eat the whole thing though and seems to dislike the thick slimy part of the white.. so maybe I'll just give her the yolks instead if she won't finish eating it.

Another thing that would be good to know, is how to discipline a cat.. I only know how to discipline dogs, and I doubt the same methods would really work on a cat as good.  How do I teach her not to do things I don't want her to do?

[cherimoya_kid]

Yeah, I'm going to make sure that at least for now, there's always something available for her to eat if she wants to.  I tried cracking open an egg in a bowl, and she was eating it, so there's a start for some raw protein and some good nutrition in the yolk.  She didn't eat the whole thing though and seems to dislike the thick slimy part of the white.. so maybe I'll just give her the yolks instead if she won't finish eating it.

Another thing that would be good to know, is how to discipline a cat.. I only know how to discipline dogs, and I doubt the same methods would really work on a cat as good.  How do I teach her not to do things I don't want her to do?

My cat would only eat egg yolks, not white.  Dorothy's right, they're way pickier about freshness of meat than dogs are.

As far as discipline, I'm no expert, but I've heard spraying them once or twice in the face with some water from a spray bottle is a good way to make them stop doing a particular behavior.

I'm sure there are plenty of cat experts out there who have other, more complex ideas.

Generally I just let cats be who they are.  If they don't like a particular thing, I don't force it on them.  Dogs, OTOH, especially smarter, bigger dogs, are much more trainable, and I expect more from them, and am less likely to let them just be their own weird selves.

[intrigued]

FWIW, my cat is pickier than the dogs, but not to this extent.  She doesn't mind meat that's a little old, but doesn't snatch up the really old stuff like the dogs will, and won't try hiding it for later like they do.

Just be careful with the spray bottle as they will likely figure out pretty quick that it's you who is doing it.  I wouldn't necessarily go for a strict "if your cat is doing something you don't like, do x", I would say if you have a specific problem you want to handle, look it up and see how people handle it.  For example, if your cat is scratching furniture, it probably needs a good, tall, stable scratching post, if it's climbing up on tables, you can try putting out tin trays as a "trap" to scare them off when they jump up there.  Mostly though, I agree with cherimoya, and generally let her do what she wants.  I don't think they necessarily benefit as much from that kind of structure as dogs do, and I'd rather have her just be happy.