Author Topic: Dangers of Vitamin D  (Read 12090 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Alive

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 736
    • View Profile
Dangers of Vitamin D
« on: September 08, 2012, 04:59:22 am »
On researching chronic fatigue this information came up about the dangers of vitamin D supplementation - it says that low levels of vitamin D are caused by illness, rather than the low levels of D causing the illness, and that taking vit D can make the condition worse:

http://trevormarshall.com/BioEssays-Feb08-Marshall-Preprint.pdf

Offline cherimoya_kid

  • One who bans trolls
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,513
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Dangers of Vitamin D
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2012, 08:19:26 pm »
That smelled like bullshit.  What diseases are they saying that vitamin D can make worse?  I just skimmed it.

Offline RomanK

  • Trapper
  • **
  • Posts: 50
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Dangers of Vitamin D
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2012, 01:01:59 am »
On MDA forum I have read several posts re heavy supplementing with D3 for inflammation with good result as soon as the level of D3 in blood work reached 50-70 (some units). Sometimes even long good sunshine has not helped to up D3 till such level...

Offline Dorothy

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,595
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Dangers of Vitamin D
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2012, 02:08:32 am »
I just read that inflammation goes down until the proper vitamin D levels are reached for the individual and then the inflammation increases when the vitamin D levels start to go above the ideal for the individual.

It's a sweet spot kind of thing.

But.......... how about magnesium? Perhaps the ill effects are just because the vitamin d is using up all the magnesium resources.

When it comes to vit D - magnesium, calcium, potassium and salt all have to be in proper balance too and there has to be sufficient fat.

Like most things with diet, it's a balancing act.

The more I read on the subject, the more I feel I need to learn.

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Dangers of Vitamin D
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2012, 02:45:57 am »
When I had chronic fatigue, I had no positive or negative effects from vitamin D. It just didn't work, full stop.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Dorothy

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,595
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Dangers of Vitamin D
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2012, 04:12:18 am »
Your chronic fatigue I guess wasn't caused by vitamin d deficiency Tyler? I doubt vitamin d would cure everything for everyone. It really helped Brian with his allergies though - pretty miraculously so. It hasn't cured other things for him though. I do wish he would go out in the sun every day instead of supplementing - but the supplementation is better than not going in the sun and not taking anything. He was really suffering with the allergies badly. Now we don't have to move!

Offline cherimoya_kid

  • One who bans trolls
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,513
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Dangers of Vitamin D
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2012, 10:33:17 am »
Your chronic fatigue I guess wasn't caused by vitamin d deficiency Tyler? I doubt vitamin d would cure everything for everyone. It really helped Brian with his allergies though - pretty miraculously so. It hasn't cured other things for him though. I do wish he would go out in the sun every day instead of supplementing - but the supplementation is better than not going in the sun and not taking anything. He was really suffering with the allergies badly. Now we don't have to move!

I got this personal mister at work that really works great for keeping me cool when I sunbathe in hot weather.  I put ice water in it and spray myself lightly about ever 5 minutes or so.  It really helps.  Maybe he could use something like that.

Offline aLptHW4k4y

  • Shaman
  • *****
  • Posts: 447
    • View Profile
Re: Dangers of Vitamin D
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2012, 04:12:02 pm »
That smelled like bullshit.  What diseases are they saying that vitamin D can make worse?  I just skimmed it.
It says supplementing vitamin D is immunosuppressive.. that alone can make a lot of things worse.
This doctor has a bunch of followers that go to even avoid food that has vitamin D in it (eggs, fish, etc.) until they cure autoimmune diseases, chronic inflammation, and a bunch of other conditions.

Offline Dorothy

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,595
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Dangers of Vitamin D
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2012, 04:09:10 am »
I got this personal mister at work that really works great for keeping me cool when I sunbathe in hot weather.  I put ice water in it and spray myself lightly about ever 5 minutes or so.  It really helps.  Maybe he could use something like that.

You recommended this before Cheri - and because of it I bought this cool thing from Lowes that you attach to the end of a hose that sends out a continual mist that we could point at ourselves when sunbathing.

But the thing that got in the way was that we weren't able to find a lounger! It was such a bummer - too late in the season - bah - humbug - the season doesn't end until December here - if then!

Laying on the ground with the chickens is risky. :D

We'll work it out eventually. I need to create an inviting space with a lounge and a mister, nice music or a recorded story or book.

I'm determined!

Offline cherimoya_kid

  • One who bans trolls
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,513
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Dangers of Vitamin D
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2012, 11:37:17 am »
You recommended this before Cheri - and because of it I bought this cool thing from Lowes that you attach to the end of a hose that sends out a continual mist that we could point at ourselves when sunbathing.

But the thing that got in the way was that we weren't able to find a lounger! It was such a bummer - too late in the season - bah - humbug - the season doesn't end until December here - if then!

Laying on the ground with the chickens is risky. :D

We'll work it out eventually. I need to create an inviting space with a lounge and a mister, nice music or a recorded story or book.

I'm determined!

Too bad about the lounger.  Did you try Craigslist?

I like the idea about the hose. Probably not as cold as the ice water, but you can get a much larger amount of water.

Offline cherimoya_kid

  • One who bans trolls
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,513
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Dangers of Vitamin D
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2012, 11:38:17 am »
It says supplementing vitamin D is immunosuppressive.. that alone can make a lot of things worse.
This doctor has a bunch of followers that go to even avoid food that has vitamin D in it (eggs, fish, etc.) until they cure autoimmune diseases, chronic inflammation, and a bunch of other conditions.

Autoimmune disorders are relieved by vitamin D supplements, not worsened.  That's because they are a result of the immune system overreacting.

Offline aLptHW4k4y

  • Shaman
  • *****
  • Posts: 447
    • View Profile
Re: Dangers of Vitamin D
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2012, 04:01:46 pm »
I suggest you, Dorothy, etc., to maybe read the paper first.

Offline Alive

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 736
    • View Profile
Re: Dangers of Vitamin D
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2012, 04:30:00 pm »
In summary it says that vitamin D is not a vitamin, but is actually a hormone that is involved in regulating several thousand genes, including genes involved in cancer and the immune system, here are some quotes :

Not only does the whole concept of ‘Vitamin D Deficiency’ need reconsideration, one should question whether it is misleading to even use the word ‘vitamin’ when discussing this secosteroid.
...
At the level of the more basic science, Arnson, et al.(52), noted that “on the whole, Vitamin D confers an immunosuppressive effect” in autoimmune disease
...
The VDR (vitamin D receptor)  is responsible for expression of key antimicrobial peptides.
Is it possible that the chronic addition of immunomodulatory ‘Vitamin D’ to the diet of Homo sapiens has disturbed the historic composition of gut microbiota, and thus is at least partly responsible for the current epidemic of obesity? Physicians know that chronic administration of corticosteroids encourages obesity. More research is needed to better define the immunomodulatory activities of this secosteroid, before encouraging even more of it to be added to the food chain.
...
Is Vitamin D supplementation helpful in slowing the resurgence of Tuberculosis, or might it make the disease worse? The answers to these questions are urgently needed.
...
Even though arthritis is projected to cripple 67 million Americans by 2030(79), there has been little subsequent study of this interaction between COMP and Vitamin D in humans, and it is not known whether Vitamin D is harmful or beneficial to the arthritic synovium. In particular, the FDA safety review did not even contemplate the possibility that Vitamin D supplementation might be a factor in arthritic cartilage degradation.

Offline Dorothy

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,595
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Dangers of Vitamin D
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2012, 02:04:41 am »
I suggest you, Dorothy, etc., to maybe read the paper first.

First before what? Do you mean before going out in the sun with mister? Vitamin D has already been effective for Brian. What first?

Also - you jump to a very big assumption that I didn't read what you posted. Why?  Because I said that vitamin D supplementation worked for my husband's allergies? It's true that I didn't look up all the words and didn't give it real close attention because the whole premise made little sense to me.

No matter what I read I always trust what works rather than someone's so-called "scientific" ideas about something. What you posted goes against everything else that I read from other sources and against the studies that have gotten real life results from vitamin d supplementation.

Why should I believe the conjectures of your authority in particular???

So far vitamin D has been helping with Brian's auto-immune issues and inflammation issues - not making it worse.

The article seemed to me like some dude bringing up lots of unanswered questions and ignoring the studies with actual people getting actual results with real issues. So what that there are unanswered questions? Why assume that vitamin D (whether you call it a vitamin or hormone or whatever or however you think or don't think it works or effects our bodies) is bad? Makes no sense. ESPECIALLY when as a species naturally we would be spending all our days out in sunshine with little clothes. I can't believe that the article has much pertinence to natural vitamin d production and its importance for our species.

I can see how supplementation might be an issue like it says in the article (especially to be able to make ridiculous claims)- but to speculate on whether vitamin d "in general" does all those "bad" things or not to me is just plain silly. For us here - food additives added to already fake foods is not exactly a pertinent discussion - right? What we're talking about for us is being out in the sun or replacing what we would normally get from being out in the sun with the best supplements we can figure out because we are sadly not doing what is natural.

Sorry for my plain talk. I know there were tons of big words in that article - but I don't see any use in muddling up the issue even further.

Sunshine is what we evolved in but now most of us don't get much at all. Supplementation can be argued for and against - but not that the vitamin d that we naturally produce could possibly be a bad thing.

Vitamin d at the proper level being an immune suppressant etc. etc. Nah. I just don't buy it.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 03:01:42 am by Dorothy »

Offline Dorothy

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,595
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Dangers of Vitamin D
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2012, 03:33:03 am »
Let me cut and paste some of the more useful things that perked up my ears in the article though - to give it it's due. It was actually an interesting article - if you don't globalize some of it's points too much:

Quote
What is a safe level of Vitamin D supplementation?
The rigorous response is to note that any quantity of
exogenous Vitamin D which does not affect the body’s
metabolic homeostasis, is safe. Levels of supplementation
which do not increase the measured Vitamin D metabolites
to levels above those observed in the un-supplemented
populations can definitely be regarded as ‘safe’. When
people ask this question, however, they usually mean ”how
much Vitamin D should I  take in order  to ensure optimal
health?” And that is an entirely different problem.

Which again - calls into the practice of shoving vitamin d into every fake food you can and calling it good for you - but is not all that pertinent of an issue for us raw paleos that don't eat such foods and are just thinking about whether or not we should supplement if we don't get out in the sun enough.


Quote
Are gut bacteria a factor in the obesity epidemic?
This question was posed  by Bajzer and Seeley
(53)
 when
commenting  on two recent papers from Gordon  and
colleagues at WUSTL
(54,55)
 showing that the balance between
Firmicutes and Bacteroidetes  in the human and murine gut
was correlated with the subject’s tendency towards obesity.
The WUSTL  group was additionally  able to transplant
microbes  from obese to ‘germ-free’ mice and show that
obesity followed the microbes


Which suggests that gut bacteria has more to do with obesity than vitamin d.

Quote
The conviction that one can, with impunity, continue to add
higher and higher concentrations of this  secosteroid to the
food chain is still firmly held by many of our clinical
colleagues. This is a recipe which could easily lead to a
public health disaster.

I would say that our food chain is a bunch of crap and adding more and more crap to it whether it's vitamin d or anything else is the real problem and is what is leading to the public health disaster.

The article does make a good point that vitamin d is much more complex than anyone seems to give it credit for. That just because something is lacking when there is disease present doesn't mean that the lack is what caused the disease.

But..... vitamin d supplementation DOES and CAN help people!

Eating a bunch of junk food with vitamin d added hurts people. Who woulda thunk it?!

Is the real problem the supplementation of vitamin d into our food chain or is it the nature of what we are eating and how we are living in the first place the real issue.

Saying that vitamin d creates immunosuppression in order to get us not to add it to our fake foods - huh?

How about - stop eating the stupid fake foods and get out into the sun?!!!  If you can't get out into the sun - well - supplementation is better than nuthin - but adding a bunch of vitamins to super - processed foods in GENERAL is the problem - not just vitamin d.

This whole premise of attacking vitamin d supplementation in order to get us to stop putting it into everything to then be able to say that the food "product" will stop osteoporosis - to me - does more harm than good.

Vitamin d isn't the only complicated thing in our bodies. Even real vitamins are more complicated than thinking you can drink tang and get your vitamins and your hormone d!

This article I'm afraid is simply not pertinent to us as raw paleos.

Offline aLptHW4k4y

  • Shaman
  • *****
  • Posts: 447
    • View Profile
Re: Dangers of Vitamin D
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2012, 03:54:45 am »
First before what? Do you mean before going out in the sun with mister? Vitamin D has already been effective for Brian. What first?
Hi Dorothy,
please relax :) I thought you didn't read it because you started talking about magnesium, calcium, etc. which have absolutely no connection to what the paper is talking. Maybe you did read it but you didn't understand it, I don't know. And it's not about going out in the sun and letting your body make vitamin D, it's about supplementing with vitamin D.

But..... vitamin d supplementation DOES and CAN help people!
The article says the same.. but the help is short term and long term things go bad. It's not different from treating diseases with medications. The disease that vitamin D helps you with is not caused by lack of vitamin D..

Let me try to explain like this. Suppose you were out on the sun, and you reach homeostasis in the vitamin D level in your body, it just doesn't go up anymore after some time. And suppose that when you measure your vitamin D level in the body, you discover it's 2x lower than what is considered normal levels by the doctors, or the gurus, or whoever. Would you take a supplement now to bring it up to those "normal" levels, even though your body is perfectly happy with the levels you measured?
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 04:15:01 am by aLptHW4k4y »

Offline Dorothy

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,595
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Dangers of Vitamin D
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2012, 04:26:57 am »
Oh - I should have known better!

You accuse me of not reading something, tell me to relax when I decide to respond and then condescendingly say back to me things that I already wrote about - meaning you didn't read what I wrote! I know the stupid thing is about supplementation - you would know that I know that if you read what I wrote!

I promised myself I wouldn't get involved in silly conversations that offer nothing to me.

I just didn't want anyone to not supplement with vitamin d if they don't go in the sun because of this ridiculous thing about supplementing junk foods.

I'm outa here. 

Offline aLptHW4k4y

  • Shaman
  • *****
  • Posts: 447
    • View Profile
Re: Dangers of Vitamin D
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2012, 07:02:18 am »

Offline cherimoya_kid

  • One who bans trolls
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,513
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Dangers of Vitamin D
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2012, 09:53:14 am »
Suppose you were out on the sun, and you reach homeostasis in the vitamin D level in your body, it just doesn't go up anymore after some time. And suppose that when you measure your vitamin D level in the body, you discover it's 2x lower than what is considered normal levels by the doctors, or the gurus, or whoever.

Prove this is even possible.  I seriously doubt that it is.

Offline Dorothy

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,595
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Dangers of Vitamin D
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2012, 03:28:10 am »
I've reconsidered and decided to finish this conversation because I got started with it and don't like leaving things that I start unfinished - even though it will be of no benefit to me nor perhaps anyone else - I'm going to go directly to the question completion purposes:

Quote
Suppose you were out on the sun, and you reach homeostasis in the vitamin D level in your body, it just doesn't go up anymore after some time. And suppose that when you measure your vitamin D level in the body, you discover it's 2x lower than what is considered normal levels by the doctors, or the gurus, or whoever. Would you take a supplement now to bring it up to those "normal" levels, even though your body is perfectly happy with the levels you measured?

If I go out in the sun here in Texas and I'm not sick - I wouldn't get a test done at all. I'd stay away from doctors and all pills.

If I lived up north, didn't go outside much, didn't feel all so great and was suffering from diseases associated with d deficiency - then I would take vitamin D WITH other minerals  (especially magnesium) and fat for proper absorption, increasing the dosages until I did feel better, and then if I started to not feel good again I would back down.

But first - I'd go more causal -  I'd dump all those foods they are talking about in the article completely and eat raw paleo. I'd eat seaweeds, good whole salts supplement with clay or minerals before even thinking about vitamin d supplementation.

Once you have cancer, osteoporosis, bad allergies and other chronic diseases - maybe from a diet that throws off your hormones, your mineral/nutrient absorption etc. does it matter which came first the deficiency or the disease? Do what you can to help yourself! There are countless studies showing that supplementation helps people to feel better with no studies showing that supplementation does harm over the long-run. Just the ideas in the article to discourage industry from putting vitamin d into ever fake food in the supermarket in order to say it prevents disease - which we all here already know is down-right stupid. Just supplementing with vitamin d and thinking it will fix anything no matter what kind of crap you put in your body, how you live or how far gone you are already - that kind of thinking is for people who don't question or think for themselves.

Again - this article has little to do with a raw paleo approach. It's about putting vitamin d into processed foods.
The question is not relevant to raw paleo dieters. If you eat well, feel great and are getting out in the sun - the whole issue is not pertinent. 

If you can't get out in the sun - a little bit of extra vitamin d supplementation ON TOP OF an excellent raw paleo diet might be preventative, but if you are sick and not getting results from your improved diet from a problem associated with vitamin d deficiency - some supplementation in place of the sun (that you would be better off getting) is probably better than nothing while living an unnatural lifestyle. It would be like instead of running down a deer for your exercise you go to the gym. Instead of going out in the sun you are taking supplements. It's a paleo compromise.

That's why I talked about minerals - because so far the problems that we have incurred with vitamin d have been because of magnesium deficiency from the vitamin d using up the magnesium - which is not spoken of in the article at all - but which is really important to take into consideration. We have read and experienced that you can take outrageously high doses of vitamin d and be fine - IF - you have enough magnesium. The ill-effects I've come to believe (from high vitamin d supplementation) are from other deficiencies. I have come to wonder if vitamin d deficiency is not the real problem for people like us with good diets - but that the real problem is mineral deficiency because of the magnesium and other mineral deficiency which has become the norm with our land.

I would not dismiss vitamin d because of this article if you do not go out in the sun and/or if you are not feeling well even though you are eating well - no matter what doctor, researcher or joe schmo out there says.

Brian and I are incredibly grateful to Cherimoya suggesting we try some vitamin d supplementation to help with Brian's allergies. He rarely gets out into the sun and he was really suffering. It's a good compromise until I do get him out in the sun.

And Cheri - I'm haunting C-list every day with all my toes and fingers crossed. :D

And Alp - if you are reading - I'm just touchy these days about spending too much time on the computer without benefit to me or others let alone if people criticize what I write - especially without reading it fully  - which is fine if they don't read it without complaining about it... but I'd rather not write at all than have to defend  - which just wastes more time. I was really hoping to get away with just mentioning the importance of minerals and how much better it was to get into the real sun and not get into a debate over an article that is not pertinent to us. I'm trying real hard to just get involved in important and useful things and not get involved in things for no good reason. I guess sometimes though - it just takes so many words to be understood which hard on me at this point. Hope you understand. No hard feelings?

Ok - now that feels more complete. I sure do hope it ends up being useful to someone.

Offline aLptHW4k4y

  • Shaman
  • *****
  • Posts: 447
    • View Profile
Re: Dangers of Vitamin D
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2012, 06:16:49 am »
Hi Dorothy,

the article talks that supplementation with vitamin D in general whether by adding it to foods or taking a pill is bad, and then the author mentions that therefore the action taken by the USDA (or whoever) to put vitamin D in a bunch of foods is bad. So no, the article is not about putting vitamin D into foods, and it is just as relevant to raw paleos taking vitamin D supplements, as it is to SAD people taking extra vitamin D that someone added it to their food.

Why do you think it is that hard to get some sunshine for people in the north? We have been living in the north in forests and caves and ice ages and what not for a long time without supplementing vitamin D. Unless you don't go out of your room for days/weeks, I really don't see how you won't get enough sun.

You keep mentioning that magnesium is quickly used up when you supplement with vitamin D. Suppose I get enough vitamin D just by going out in the sun, do I need to take magnesium in this case too? Do people in the south supplement magnesium because they get much more sun (and so more vitamin D)? Because I don't think their diet somehow has more magnesium, and sunshine gives you a lot more vitamin D than supplements typically have as far as I know.

I understand that it's helping you, I just want to say it's good to keep an open mind about this kind of stuff.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 06:22:13 am by aLptHW4k4y »

Offline Dorothy

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,595
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Dangers of Vitamin D
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2012, 07:52:10 am »
I'm sorry alp - but you aren't making much sense.

Quote
the article talks that supplementation with vitamin D in general whether by adding it to foods or taking a pill is bad, and then the author mentions that therefore the action taken by the USDA (or whoever) to put vitamin D in a bunch of foods is bad. So no, the article is not about putting vitamin D into foods, and it is just as relevant to raw paleos taking vitamin D supplements, as it is to SAD people taking extra vitamin D that someone added it to their food.

The article did not say that supplementing was bad - it specifically said that supplementing up to the amount that people with no added supplementation in their food is fine as I quoted above.

How can you say that the article is not about putting vitamin d into foods - that's all it's about! It's saying not do it. You seemed to think earlier that I didn't know that and had to tell me that it was the subject of the article when I had already talked about it. You are making my head hurt. 

How can raw paleos taking vitamin d be the same as SAD people doing it? You missed my points completely it seems. Did you read what I wrote this time? The article was saying that vit d deficiency was not necessarily the cause of the disease, just present with the disease state. Therefore, doesn't it make sense to do what you can to balance the body of the disease state without expecting vitamin d to do it for you and aren't we a raw paleo forum where we use diet to help us reverse chronic disease? First off - raw paleos aren't getting dosed with the stuff in all the processed foods. They had trouble finding a test group that wasn't getting vitamin d supplementation already if you remember - if you read the article.

Quote
Why do you think it is that hard to get some sunshine for people in the north? We have been living in the north in forests and caves and ice ages and what not for a long time without supplementing vitamin D. Unless you don't go out of your room for days/weeks, I really don't see how you won't get enough sun.

People evolved spending all day with little clothes on in the north and developed very light skin to be able to do it. If you have darker skin in the north AND you spend your days inside - most of the experts that I read said that vitamin production would be difficult to impossible with modern lifestyles. You can believe them or not - but if I were an African American living in the north - I sure would supplement.

Quote
You keep mentioning that magnesium is quickly used up when you supplement with vitamin D. Suppose I get enough vitamin D just by going out in the sun, do I need to take magnesium in this case too? Do people in the south supplement magnesium because they get much more sun (and so more vitamin D)? Because I don't think their diet somehow has more magnesium, and sunshine gives you a lot more vitamin D than supplements typically have as far as I know.

Animals and plants raised on our agricultural land that is depleted of minerals whether north or south. Water supplies are dubious in general these days as well so if you filter your water then you get even less minerals. That's why so many of us here seem to be drawn to adding minerals into our diets with animals allowed to eat wildly as well as sea vegetables, salt, clay etc. Yes, I talk about magnesium. We probably all should be talking about it and other minerals as well. I've been trying to replenish the soil I am growing food in with seaweeds. This north south thing is such a strange thing you are talking about and makes no sense. If your body is getting all the vitamin d it needs from the sun it will just stop so huh? There are so many factors including skin color, ability to absorb minerals, gut bacteria, digestive ability. Again, bringing up such questions makes no sense to me and isn't pertinent to the article or anything I wrote. If you aren't feeling well and are supplementing with vitamin d - it's just good to realize that there might also be mineral issues as well to be considered. That's why I bring it up. If you  do very high vitamin d supplementation when you are already low in magnesium and other minerals it can cause problems. Just something to be aware of in a very practical, real sense for people that are not getting out into the sun, are feeling badly and would like to try d supplementation.

Quote
I understand that it's helping you, I just want to say it's good to keep an open mind about this kind of stuff.

I do not supplement vitamin d btw - not sure you realize this from what you wrote. It doesn't work for me because I don't supplement. I don't take any supplements. Never said I did.

What kind of stuff do you want me to have an open mind to? The idea that adding vitamin d to a bunch of fake food is bad? Duh! That because someone thinks that adding it endlessly to the food supply in order to make ridiculous claims is not good is something people here seem to want to extrapolate into a warning not to take vitamin d when they are ill even though it might help them? I have generally a very open mind - but that's just scare tactics. I don't like those. Trying to scare people away from the sun or from vitamin d if they don't get outside much when there wasn't anything even in this article to suggest that - to me that's just sensationalism and a disservice to our community here. People often just read the title and do a quick scan and make snap judgments - and with this article - not such a good idea.

But I really did NOT want to get into all this! I just wanted to read the darn thing, dismiss it as irrelevant to us (as I still think it is) and give a few hints on what I learned about taking vitamin d from experience. I hope that this enough on the subject from me?
Thanks.

Offline Alive

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 736
    • View Profile
Re: Dangers of Vitamin D
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2012, 09:22:48 am »
Hi Dorothy,
I am glad to hear that Brian has experienced some relief through using Vitamin D, my post was not intended to deter you from doing anything you find useful.

I agree with you that a successful RPD does not need supplementation, and in my case this essay caused me to take this step and cease taking D supplements. I was only taking them for the random reason someone else on this site talking about stopping brushing teeth & advancing gums was taking D, I want good teeth, so I copied this without any evidence that it was useful

This essay reminded me of the potential problems with being so random with compounds and metabolic processes we hardly understand.

Now I intend to limit any supplementation to more natural things like Himalaya salt, kelp, and fish heads.

Regarding sun exposure I am white skinned with temperate European ancestors, which could often have limited body exposure to sun, but then it could be for long durations. Normally I have burned easily, and this was especially the case when kayaking in Thailand and briefly taking anti-materia tablets. This shows how easily metabolic processes can affect sun reactions, and I look forward to discovering the results of RPD
 

Offline Dorothy

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,595
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Dangers of Vitamin D
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2012, 06:21:03 am »
Hi Dorothy,
I am glad to hear that Brian has experienced some relief through using Vitamin D, my post was not intended to deter you from doing anything you find useful.

I agree with you that a successful RPD does not need supplementation, and in my case this essay caused me to take this step and cease taking D supplements. I was only taking them for the random reason someone else on this site talking about stopping brushing teeth & advancing gums was taking D, I want good teeth, so I copied this without any evidence that it was useful

This essay reminded me of the potential problems with being so random with compounds and metabolic processes we hardly understand.

Now I intend to limit any supplementation to more natural things like Himalaya salt, kelp, and fish heads.

Regarding sun exposure I am white skinned with temperate European ancestors, which could often have limited body exposure to sun, but then it could be for long durations. Normally I have burned easily, and this was especially the case when kayaking in Thailand and briefly taking anti-materia tablets. This shows how easily metabolic processes can affect sun reactions, and I look forward to discovering the results of RPD
 

Thanks Alive,

My question would be to the person that stopped advancing gum (I think you really mean receding gumline?) and no longer having to brush their teeth - what came first? Were they already on a RPD for an extended time without those results before starting the vit d and then getting the results or did they do both at the same time? Causation can be hard to determine if you multiple things are changed at one time. Like - did they stop brushing their teeth at around the same time they started taking the vit d? Then why say it was the vitamin d and not the brushing that got the results? You would really need more data about everything that the person was doing and when and more people having that same result with only changing  vit d supplementation in order to determine that the results likely would be the same for you anyway.

The thing was that you were doing the vit d supplementation as a preventative while you already have light skin that burns easily and get out in the sun right? It's probably good to question your need to take a man-made supplement in order to prevent something you might never get imho. If you're feeling good on a good diet and getting out in the sun enough for your skin type and weight - if it aint broke - I say don't fix it.

A lot of people here on this forum though I think come here with some serious problems along with working in offices all day. For them, some supplementation might help with their healing - as long as they don't try to get their vitamin d from drinking fortified pasteurized/homogenized milk! lol.


Offline Alive

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 736
    • View Profile
Re: Dangers of Vitamin D
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2012, 01:56:11 pm »
Dorothy
Yes you make a lot of sense, I concur.

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk