Can we do without vegetables/greens?

[van]

Let's see how he does in ten years.  I followed his way of eating when I was doing 80 10 10.  He would also like to sell you his soap tooth paste too.  Ask him if he's monitored his blood sugar throughout the day, and if he's aware of insulin resistance from continual eating of foods that spike insulin.    Maybe a little biased here, but it hurt me quite a bit.  Hard to notice in the beginning, for all the sugar gives one big boosts of 'energy'.  And then you have to keep eating more and more.  Just look at Durianrider.   

[Joy2012]

How long has Frederic Patenaude been a raw vegan with emphasis on fruits? Does he look young or old for his age?

[cherimoya_kid]

Let's see how he does in ten years.  I followed his way of eating when I was doing 80 10 10.  He would also like to sell you his soap tooth paste too.  Ask him if he's monitored his blood sugar throughout the day, and if he's aware of insulin resistance from continual eating of foods that spike insulin.    Maybe a little biased here, but it hurt me quite a bit.  Hard to notice in the beginning, for all the sugar gives one big boosts of 'energy'.  And then you have to keep eating more and more.  Just look at Durianrider.   

Doug Graham has already gone to hell in a handbasket.  He looks like shit, and DR is on his way there as well.

There might be some tiny percentage of the population who can do a low-fat, high fruit diet for years and have no problems.  Tiny is the word, though.  It catches up with almost everyone eventually.

[Barefoot Instincto]

How long has Frederic Patenaude been a raw vegan with emphasis on fruits? Does he look young or old for his age?

He started at about 18 I believe, and had always been very underweight until he made changes to the diet which a lot of the raw vegan guru's disagreed with (their advice was never working for anybody in the long term). Nowadays he's 34 I believe, and looks healthy and youthful. He's a regular weight now, and from what I've seen from him looks toned.

He's not 100% strict, preferring to eat cooked food a few times a week in the form of lightly steamed vegetables or cooked potatoes, claiming that some cooked food isn't nearly as bad as others and that to be successful in the long term you gotta give yourself some breaks like these.

I think he'll actually continue to do very well on this diet, simply because he's careful to get everything and enough of what he needs. Big green smoothies are an important and easy way he gets nutrients and calories.

Testimonials by people claiming to have adopted his techniques and tips report an 80/10/10 very much a success whereas before they only had a declining of health.

[cherimoya_kid]

He started at about 18 I believe, and had always been very underweight until he made changes to the diet which a lot of the raw vegan guru's disagreed with (their advice was never working for anybody in the long term). Nowadays he's 34 I believe, and looks healthy and youthful. He's a regular weight now, and from what I've seen from him looks toned.

He's not 100% strict, preferring to eat cooked food a few times a week in the form of lightly steamed vegetables or cooked potatoes, claiming that some cooked food isn't nearly as bad as others and that to be successful in the long term you gotta give yourself some breaks like these.

I think he'll actually continue to do very well on this diet, simply because he's careful to get everything and enough of what he needs. Big green smoothies are an important and easy way he gets nutrients and calories.

Testimonials by people claiming to have adopted his techniques and tips report an 80/10/10 very much a success whereas before they only had a declining of health.

Like I said, a tiny percentage of people can make it work in the long run. 

[TylerDurden]

I do wish people wouldn't erroneously claim that  certain diets are great just because some people on such diets live to a 100 or over. That point is irrelevant as advanced medical technology now keeps people alive for far longer, despite their many ailments, plus there is less stress in peoples' lives nowadays which is also a factor etc.

Plus, I've seen so many people end up in a very bad way due to eating cooked diets. Sure, a very few do take precautions, such as going in for caloric restriction or not heating their food too much, but even those are in an unhealthy state - it's just that they seem healthy only because their health-problems are far "less worse" than the more serious health-problems of  most  other cooked-food-eaters.

[Joy2012]

He started at about 18 I believe, and had always been very underweight until he made changes to the diet which a lot of the raw vegan guru's disagreed with (their advice was never working for anybody in the long term). Nowadays he's 34 I believe, and looks healthy and youthful. He's a regular weight now, and from what I've seen from him looks toned.

He's not 100% strict, preferring to eat cooked food a few times a week in the form of lightly steamed vegetables or cooked potatoes, claiming that some cooked food isn't nearly as bad as others and that to be successful in the long term you gotta give yourself some breaks like these.

I think he'll actually continue to do very well on this diet, simply because he's careful to get everything and enough of what he needs. Big green smoothies are an important and easy way he gets nutrients and calories.

Testimonials by people claiming to have adopted his techniques and tips report an 80/10/10 very much a success whereas before they only had a declining of health.

Thanks for replying.

34 is too young to get sick for most people. People on a SAD diet can look and feel awesome at 34.

[cherimoya_kid]

I do wish people wouldn't erroneously claim that  certain diets are great just because some people on such diets live to a 100 or over. That point is irrelevant as advanced medical technology now keeps people alive for far longer, despite their many ailments, plus there is less stress in peoples' lives nowadays which is also a factor etc.

Plus, I've seen so many people end up in a very bad way due to eating cooked diets. Sure, a very few do take precautions, such as going in for caloric restriction or not heating their food too much, but even those are in an unhealthy state - it's just that they seem healthy only because their health-problems are far "less worse" than the more serious health-problems of  most  other cooked-food-eaters.

It continually amazes me how unwilling people are to try a simple idea like eating all-raw.

It reduces my opinion of the human race.

[Joy2012]

CK, you could use a dose of compassion.    Giving up all the cooked comfort foods is a shocking idea to many.  Some people's primary pleasure in life is eating those comfort foods.

[cherimoya_kid]

CK, you could use a dose of compassion.   

I'm sure you're right, but I still reserve the right to think poorly of the human race.

[Barefoot Instincto]

Yes, I have to say I agree. Fred is probably doing the best 80/10/10 diet that can be done, and good on him for giving other people advice on how to do it the most proper that they're able. Many raw vegan "experts" are giving such terrible advice. Fred seems to be at least on a decent track.

I'd never recommend his diet though, only the tips he provides because even on a diet thats different than his, he has good insights that can help other people. We need good, clean meat, and plenty of it. An all fruit and veg diet is not only unsatisfying, its definitely dangerous in the long term.

His wisdom appealed to me because I usually eat upwards of 2 pounds of fruit and veg a day minimum. Some days more (some days less, but not usually).

[aLptHW4k4y]

That guy is a joke and obviously just looking to make some easy money, and I'm not sure how could anyone believe anything he says.

http://www.fredericpatenaude.com/

I've seen the exact same template on a bunch of similar scam web sites.

[Barefoot Instincto]

All vegans and anyone who touts the vegan lifestyle is a joke. This guy is just the least of the jokers, I think.

The main reason I got his book was because of his story about the raw food movement, and the fact that he's a raw food advocate with some good tips.

I'm not sure how could anyone believe anything he says.

Your comment strikes me as extremely ignorant. Just because he doesn't advocate eating meat doesn't mean he doesn't know anything about produce or have any other good tips. In my opinion, produce is the most important part of a diet, for sure. Just like with anything (including the material we all subscribe to and promote) you take the good with the bad and decide for yourself what knowledge you find logical and useful to keep.

On another note, who the hell isn't looking to make easy money, if you can?

[Joy2012]

I read a book recently by Frederic Patenaude, who is a raw vegan who does 80/10/10 and says to be doing it extremely successfully based on a few changes he had to make due to a very failing of health. I found it useful for many tips, although my diet is much different than his. It was also a neat story to read about his involvement in the California raw food movement (he met many of the raw "guru's").

Among some of his suggestions were not to snack on fruit all day like most people were doing. He says you need to cram in enough fruit calories in 2 meals, and then have something like a big salad with avocado or a few nuts or something like that. The key is to eat enough fruit (and enough greens!) Most people don't, and think they do.

He claims that the benefits of this diet don't come from the raw foods. They help, but the main benefit comes from abstaining from cooked foods, and unnatural, harmful foods. I agree with many of his ideas, but I personally don't think a diet of mostly just fruit is healthy (and would be very unsatisfying). It has deficiencies unless you supplement.

Another recommendation was to brush 3 times a day, for a total of about 10 minutes, very gently. In his younger days he ended up destroying his teeth (basically 40 fillings within 5 or 6 years). Now that he does what he does, he has no problems with his teeth.

If you have time, please share more of FP's tips on fruit and vegetables. 

When I go instincto, I tend to eat much fruit. Does FP advocate sweet or sour fruit?

[aLptHW4k4y]

On another note, who the hell isn't looking to make easy money, if you can?

I'd rather pay to someone who's genuinely into the topic and studied it seriously, not some random guy who's merely telling his experience or something he read on the internet. He's dumb enough to ignore animal foods, why would I take his advice on anything then? How do I know that whatever else he's saying is not equally flawed.

[LePatron7]

Here's my personal opinion re: can we do without plant foods.

I personally think we can do without plant foods. How ever by design I don't think we're naturally meat only eaters.

I think we do well with some plant foods. I don't think we do well with ALL plant foods, but fruits, veggies, and possibly nuts in moderation without going over board sounds sensible.

[MaximilianKohler]

For those who haven't seen/heard it, Loren Cordain talks about eating an only fat and meat diet here: http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2010/03/24/loren-cordain-caution-on-saturated-fats-disaster-with-grains-will-be-public-after-march-25th/

[zaidi]

Inger, don't we need saturated fats?

I think that it's only possible to live exclusively on food from the sea if we include sea mammals and other creatures who can supply us with more saturated fats. Some German scientists tried a mackerel zc diet. The results have been devastating after some weeks/months. Too many PUFAs, even from raw animal sources can be very problematic. Let me see if I can find these papers...

Have you heard of the super fatty candlefish? It's supposed to have a perfect fatty acid balance, much better than salmon or mackerel. Unfortunately, it's not available in Europe, as far as I know.

Löwenherz

Unfinished Task:


1)  It seems you have not found this book. It would have been interesting to have it, as Jack kruse epi poleo diet seems to be related to it. While I followed Inger, and she followed Jack, therefore it seems to be important to me.

2) Please also make it clear if those doctors used cooked mackerel or the raw one.


Thanks & Regards

[Iguana]

For those who haven't seen/heard it, Loren Cordain talks about eating an only fat and meat diet here: http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2010/03/24/loren-cordain-caution-on-saturated-fats-disaster-with-grains-will-be-public-after-march-25th/

Thanks, very interesting. Excerpt:

Zimmerman was a pathologist, and he was lucky enough to be in Alaska when a 400 AD, so we’re talking 1600 year old, frozen Inuit mummy was recovered. He did an autopsy on this, and he sectioned the coronary arteries. So this is 400 AD. These people had never seen white people. They had only eaten what Steve Phinney had suggested people eat–fat and protein–and significant atherosclerosis in a 53 year old Inuit woman, on pathology. That wasn’t just the only case. He then was privy to another group of frozen Eskimo bodies that were recovered in Barrow, Alaska, and these people date to about 1520 AD, so just slightly after the time Columbus had discovered America. Once again, no influence of Western civilization. So presumably, they were living at Barrow, 60 degrees north, they were eating meat and fat their entire life. They might get a little bit of berries sometime in the summer. Extensive atherosclerosis was in the older woman, who was 30. All three of them were osteoporotic. They were severely osteoporotic on that type of diet. So you can give this to people who claim that all we need to eat is meat and fat.

[Inger]

I am not believing in a fat and protein diet only.
I believe we need all that grows where we live.
I eat wild edibles, berries, mushrooms.. seaweeds... the whole animal.. fish and land mammals.. I am totally not for a restricted diet! But I am totally for a local diet.
Maybe the Inuit in the study did not eat those. It is a useless case as we do not know how the individuals referred to in the study really lived. It was over 1000 years ago. We need to be always careful when referring to studies like this if that is to give us an opportunity to feast on dates in the mid of Scandinavian winter..huh! We need to use our brains and see the whole picture.
But sure it is NOT healthy to live from only fat and protein. That I am 100% sure of!

Many people get scared from such studies and then start eating fruits and carbs that are totally unnatural to their environment and seasons. Instead of checking what they might have left out. Seaweeds anyone? Awesome for bone heath! And you get them everywhere on earth close to ocean/sea. Iodine? A more effective antioxidant than vitamin C..!

[TylerDurden]

Given that atherosclerosis is heavily increased as a result of consuming heat-created toxins from cooked foods, according to many studies on advanced glycation end products, Iguana is simply showing that even eating boiled meats like the Inuit sometimes did, is ultimately harmful.  Going raw, zero-carb would be fine(for some), by contrast.

[Inger]

Tyler.. I still by no means believe it is too good an idea to eat only meat and fat. Even if it is raw.
Sure you can survive by it, but ideal? No. Not in my view at least.
I believe we need some greens too, like seaweeds. And wild berries and mushrooms and stuff. I do not understand why we need to limit our food into just meat and fat..

[Adora]

Inger - Do you think for 3-6months it is safe/good to live on various fat and various protein with small amts of sea vegetables, fresh and dried herbs, and bites of kraut?  I have even over ate mushrooms - especially portabella  .
I have stuffed myself on salad. I hope I will heal metabolically/hormonally/mentally/emotionally and find freedom from those bonds. IYO is that healthy balance for a season or 2?

[Inger]

Yes Adora, I think that is perfectly fine, especially when you eat the whole animal.
Portabella is not growing wild is it? I usually eat only wild mushrooms.. and seasonal, in summer/ fall. The cultivated one have too little nutrition and healing properties..

[MaximilianKohler]

Adora, I would strongly recommend to listen to your body. If you feel worse on ketosis then don't do it.

I have tried pretty much every diet imaginable(including what you just mentioned) and the good ones always effect me positively right away, and the bad ones don't get better. Ketosis is the exception in that it has a known physical adaption period of approximately 1-2 weeks. If you're not feeling good on ketosis after 2-3 weeks, stop.

There are definitely benefits from raw fats but ketosis seems to mainly be a weight loss strategy that only a small percentage of people function well on. I do well on a high fat diet but very poorly on ketosis.