Proof of Precognition?

[TylerDurden]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2227342/Can-predict-future-Research-claims-discovered-presentiment-power-anticipates-events.html

[Iguana]

When I was a kid, I was at summer camp walking down a dirt road.  I used to get this thing where I would feel like I would get pulled upward and back, just out of my body.  Sounds became very distant but plenty clear, and I would see differently.  Almost trance like, but still fully functional.

Well it happend REALLY strong, I just snapped in to that state walking down this road.  A series of events that took 30 sec's or so played out, and then I snapped out of it.  I had this crazy sensation of deja vu, and then realized I had dreamt the entire thing about a week before (I used to remember my dreams for weeks out as a kid).  I mean it was like if you'd put a camera in my eye and in my dream, they were the exact same. 

Of course this was a long time ago, and even though I've had some weird experiences with that kind of stuff, I still can't bring myself to say there is definitely something else going on.  I guess it's the scientist in me that would like to see those kind of things purposefully replicated.

I haven't noticed much difference on RP or not, although I do sleep better and have more vivid dreams.  Although I always forget to pay attention to my dreams.

If you're interested in that kind of stuff, check out Eckhart Tolle. 

A similar experience happened to me years ago. (I was eating cooked and dairy food then, but I was in great love with a woman.) What bewildered me most was that not only the guy said exactly the same words than in my dream the night before, but I also answered him the same exact words that I had told him in my dream. Simultaneously I was realizing I was saying those same words and then I knew exactly what he was going to answer next  Ever since that, I searched where our knowledge stands about time and finally found an answer in a book of the physicist Olivier Costa de Beauregard. He says that past and future coexist.

Our conventional concept of time looks absurd once we realize that the present has no duration: it is just a line without thickness separating our past from our future. Thus, if the past is no more, the future is not yet and the present has no duration, what is left ? Huh ?

If we consider instead that past and future coexist and it is our consciousness which move through time rather than the time flowing, then precognition is not a paradox anymore.

Cheers
Francois

[LePatron7]

I'm a member of a farm that sells raw milk, among other healthy foods. I place an order once every 2 weeks, and pick up the food every other week.

One night, I had a dream that I was drinking raw milk. I woke up unusually early that day.

I received an email that morning saying they had accidentally sent a double order, so they were offering those foods to anyone interested.

Available were: 8 half gallons of raw milk, some eggs, and a few other things.

I requested to half gallons of raw milk. Picked up my order and was drinking raw milk that week.

Coincidence? I don't think so. I think there's something else, likely undidscovered, that makes us able to know the future (or parts of it).

[Iguana]

Our life in this world is odd in that we usually don’t know the future, only exceptionally a tiny part of it. 

If we consider that past and future coexist and it is our consciousness which moves through time rather than the time flowing, then precognition is not a paradox anymore.

[Wattlebird]

From a shamanic (and some other spiritual teachings) past, present and future - time -  is simply of thought, of memory.
Furthermore, all that has happened, happening now or happening in the future, is already 'out there.'
'Out there' is 'in here' when we able to journey.

[PaleoPhil]

Interestingly, in quantum physics it's pretty much the same thing--past, present and future all exist together.

Re: the experiment, it will of course need to be analyzed, further tested and the results replicated before any conclusions can be drawn, and similar experiments in the past were found to have been flawed, but it is intriguing.

[Dorothy]

Welcome to my world.

[PaleoPhil]

If something like presentiment or ESP does exist and has a significant effect, then we can expect that some folks will use the ability to get super-rich, and my guess would be that quantum physics would provide the theoretical explanation of a mechanism.

Efforts to replicate the ESP experiments of Prof. Daryl Bern so far reportedly have failed:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/06/science/06esp.html?pagewanted=2&_r=0

[Dorothy]

If something like presentiment or ESP does exist and has a significant effect, then we can expect that some folks will use the ability to get super-rich

Some have.

[jessica]

heres a dumb one from a few weeks ago for me.  had a dream that i won a very specific amount of money in the lottery.....$250,000. the next morning in my inbox was a message from the colorado lottery that there was a new scratch ticket with the grand prize of 250,000.  unfortunately no one was willing to buy me a ticket and send it in the mail.....god dammit!

[jessica]

if ryan where here hed probably want to tell you about bird language and tracking and how you can learn to sense energy patterns and the like....
i know that when my senses are blown wide open by entheogens i am infinitely more intuative to the point of feeling like i can sense and predict future events because patterns become evident

[Wolf]

I used to fall asleep listening to the radio hoping to hear my favourite song before I fell asleep, but I would always fall asleep before hearing it.  Then I would randomly wake up in the middle of the night (which rarely ever happened to me, I never woke up in the middle of the night for anything, I was a very heavy sleeper) and wonder why I had woken up because it was unusual.  Then I would roll over and try to fall back asleep, and a few seconds later my favourite song that I had been hoping to hear all night would start to play on the radio.  This happened to me on more than one occasion.  That was back when I ate SAD though.

what are entheogens?  I'd also be interested in hearing about bird language and sensing energy patterns..

[Iguana]

If something like presentiment or ESP does exist and has a significant effect, then we can expect that some folks will use the ability to get super-rich, and my guess would be that quantum physics would provide the theoretical explanation of a mechanism.

Efforts to replicate the ESP experiments of Prof. Daryl Bern so far reportedly have failed:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/06/science/06esp.html?pagewanted=2&_r=0

Such experiments are difficult to set up and even more difficult to replicate. The first well known ones are those of J.B. Rhine  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Banks_Rhine . Results tend to show there’s something, but it’s neither tantamount nor ubiquitous. The problems seems to be that with pure scientific experimental conditions, the crucial emotional factor is absent.

But in real live, countless people have reported an enormous number of extremely striking ESP cases, although it seems no one could hardly ever make any money with it. Nevertheless, if all those people lied, it would mean there’s no hope anybody would ever tell the truth in any circumstances!

A very good and utterly trust-able friend of mine told me the following story. One night his mother, with whom he was living, saw in dream the number of the winning lottery ticket and the newsstand where this ticket could be bought. She woke up and immediately wrote the ticket number on a sheet of paper before returning to sleep. So, in the morning they drove around Lausanne town for hours searching for that newsstand, but failed to find it. Some times later, the lottery’s results were published and the number she wrote was the winner. 

Years later, they drove somewhere in town and on their way, she suddenly saw the exact newsstand where she had dreamed the wining ticket was for sale. It was much too late, unfortunately…
____
One of my nephew also had a striking experience.  At school, the teacher asked the students to write a fiction in which they have an accident. So, he wrote that he broke his left clavicle while playing volleyball. Some weeks later, the exact accident he had previously accurately described in details happened to him!

[Iguana]

... wonder why I had woken up because it was unusual.  Then I would roll over and try to fall back asleep, and a few seconds later my favourite song that I had been hoping to hear all night would start to play on the radio.  This happened to me on more than one occasion.  That was back when I ate SAD though.

You slept with the radio on?

[PaleoPhil]

Quote from: PaleoPhil on Yesterday at 05:29:21 pm
If something like presentiment or ESP does exist and has a significant effect, then we can expect that some folks will use the ability to get super-rich

Some have.

OK, I'll bite--who are they?

But in real live, countless people have reported an enormous number of extremely striking ESP cases, although it seems no one could hardly ever make any money with it. Nevertheless, if all those people lied, it would mean there’s no hope anybody would ever tell the truth in any circumstances!

There's a third possibility in addition to having an ESP ability or lying--it's being honestly mistaken.

[Iguana]

There's a third possibility in addition to having an ESP ability or lying--it's being honestly mistaken.

Mistaken when you see in real exactly what you saw before in dream and when you therefore know exactly what the guy is going to say before he opens the mouth to speak? Mistaken when you happen to have the very same accident you previously described in a written text? Where could be the mistake then? In the accident itself or in the dream of the accident?  Mistaken when the winning lottery ticket happen to have the exact number which was given you in a dream and which you wrote on a paper? What do you mean?

[PaleoPhil]

Mistaken when you see in real exactly what you saw before in dream and when you therefore know exactly what the guy is going to say before he opens the mouth to speak? Mistaken when you happen to have the very same accident you previously described in a written text? Where could be the mistake then? In the accident itself or in the dream of the accident?  Mistaken when the winning lottery ticket happen to have the exact number which was given you in a dream and which you wrote on a paper? What do you mean?

I wasn't commenting on your personal experience, just mentioning the other possibility. You're not claiming that it's not a possibility for anyone, are you?

[Dorothy]

People are often mistaken and lie almost constantly - so you are right to question Phil - especially if you do not have the experiences for yourself. It's the sign of a healthy mind.

Phil, you don't think I would actually name people here do you?

Ok, here's an example since it's already in print, but I can't remember the book and my books are in storage. I read a book on the stock market - It might have been Market Masters, when I find it again I will tell you, but I can't remember now it's been so long - but one thing I still remember decades later is that the author, as stodgy as you can get stock market dude monitoring trading, noticed that one person was able to predict the commodity futures in a way that was virtually impossible. He tracked the little old man down and asked him what his secret was. The unassuming old one said that God was telling him what to buy and when to sell. The impossibly masterful trading stopped when the old man died not that long afterwards.

Now, in the book the author was laughing at this - saying that there were ALL sorts of ways to get good information.

The old man could have been lying, the author could be lying, maybe it was actually aliens talking to the old man.

None-the-less - it was a good story and no one really knows who knows things and from whence the information comes because I assure you, if that man hadn't died he would have probably been killed by others trying to get to him. No one in their right mind would come forth and tell you that they go to casinos or play the ponies using their sixth sense even if they truly did! 

There are also all sorts of different kinds of precognition, some of them that are not controllable so not really testable, but that for the person that experiences them reliable sources of information when they do happen. I assure you, my husband has learned not to walk down a street or go some place when I stop in my tracks and say I refuse to go or that I don't want him to go. He's always seeing the little things and some times the big things that I talk about that come to pass - but making money out of it is a whole other ball of wax. It's not something that I consciously control. It just happens when it happens if it happens.

[PaleoPhil]

Phil, you don't think I would actually name people here do you?

If you prefer, you could PM me.

No one in their right mind would come forth and tell you that they go to casinos or play the ponies using their sixth sense even if they truly did!

So how do you know that they exist, if they didn't tell you?

If someone reports what upcoming lottery numbers will be, that will be far more convincing than recollections of past lottery drawings. I'm not commenting on whether people's recollections or reports are correct or not, just sharing what would be more convincing.

[Wolf]

You slept with the radio on?

Yes, I always liked falling asleep to music or some sound, so I would always fall asleep to the radio, or a CD playing, or something.. when I was much younger my grandpa would play tapes of orca whales sounds when I went to sleep.. and my mom said she used to vacuum while I was sleeping in my crib.  I've never much liked falling asleep to silence and I've probably fallen asleep to sound more times in my life than I've fallen asleep to silence.  Might be part of the reason I've been such a heavy sleeper, though I sleep lighter  now that I eat so much healthier.

[raw-al]

There is a BBC program called Horizons http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/spirituality/the-secret-you/msg101149/#msg101149 that I linked, that showed a place where researchers used a scanning device that showed that 6 seconds before people made a decision the operators of the device could tell what they were going to decide.

Psychic abilities are not that unusual. When I was about 21 I went to an honest to God Gypsy women in the town where I was going to school. She truly had a glass eye, a bandana and looked the part. My girlfriend and her friend invited myself and another friend. The Gypsy read tea leaves and it was quite an experience. She told me stories about things I had done in the past including very specific things. No way could she have guessed them.

My ex had a dream where I met another (the perfect [for me]) women and she told me exactly where. Despite always being very careful at these events, it happened. It was unavoidable and the attraction was/is so strong that it was inevitable.

[Dorothy]

So how do you know that they exist, if they didn't tell you?



If someone reports what upcoming lottery numbers will be, that will be far more convincing than recollections of past lottery drawings. I'm not commenting on whether people's recollections or reports are correct or not, just sharing what would be more convincing.

If someone trusts me - does that mean I should tell others?

Of course if someone reports future lottery numbers publicly that would be convincing - it would also probably get them kidnapped and/or killed.

What I was saying is that usually precognition does not follow specific rules or guidelines and you can't force it - it just pops up and sometimes in ways that only one experience of it is enough to prove it to you. Anything that I tell you is not going to convince you (and SHOULDN'T convince you) until you are with a person that you trust where it happens or it happens to you. What I do suggest is that an open mind to the possibility would be in order since you do not know if or if not such experiences others report are true or not until if and when something does occur that convinces you. Afterall, it is reported by so many people that insisting that it is not true because you have not seen sufficient evidence yourself would indicate a very closed mind imho and if there is one thing I think you have Phil - it is an open and logical mind. 

[Iguana]

What I was saying is that usually precognition does not follow specific rules or guidelines and you can't force it - it just pops up and sometimes in ways that only one experience of it is enough to prove it to you.

Very true.

There can be a paradox which prevents you to use it efficiently, even more so for others, first because you will know whether your dream (or whatever else) was really a precognition only once it has materialized. For example, you dream that you crash your car on the trip you planned for tomorrow, from X to Y. Then you can choose either to drive anyway because you have to (and by the way to check if your dream was precognitive or not…) or to cancel your trip, this meaning that you won’t ever be able to know what would have happen if you had been driving to Y. In the latter case what your dream of a crash was all about, because since you canceled the trip, you can’t crash the car… 

Another thing that can be ESP is when you unexpectedly change your course just on a sudden fit of temper, and it later proves to have been very wise.   

BTW, very nice story, Raw-al! 

[Wattlebird]

for what its worth, most everyone has 'psychic abilities'
regarding shamanism (term used to describe someone who journeys), some individuals have certain neurological 'abnormalities' which lend themselves to these psychic functions. See this piece here: http://naturebum.wordpress.com/2012/08/05/shamanic-practice/
In addition, often shamans use substances like peyote, mushrooms, acacia bark, etc (entheogens) which open different avenues of perception.
These new perceptions are certainly not everyones cup of tea however.
Other techniques including fasting, breathing techniques, meditations, drumming, chanting, dream manipulation techniques etc.

[Dorothy]

If you have enough such experiences and work with dreams enough and do shamanic work enough you will know which dreams are indicating something about to happen - at least that is usually the case at this point with me. What you say is true Iguana that if you don't let the situation occur then you never have proof of it being an accurate indicator. For instance a couple of nights ago I had a dream that was clearly precognition to me where something large fell down and just missed Brian and I was told something that sounded like "trust trusts" - which made no sense to me but I knew that soon something about trusts was about to come and that there would be a dangerous situation that we could avoid. Today we went to a big wood yard for the first time and Brian wanted to go out and look at the wood but the man kept on trying to persuade him not to as it was such big place where people just didn't do that and then he started describing it and talked about the place where the trusses were made. I've never heard of a truss before. It made me stop dead in my tracks and I knew that it was what the dream was referring to. For me, the moment he said trusses I knew for sure that it was what my unconscious was talking about and that was enough of a coming forth of what was expected in and of itself so when we drove around I asked Brian to stop at the trusses in order to "trust" the trusses - in order to prevent what might otherwise have occurred. 

Once you've experienced hundreds if not thousands of your dreams becoming reality, you no longer have to test. Many of them don't matter when they come or when you hear about them in the news so there is no need to try to prevent - so it leaves you open to act upon with surety the ones that are being brought forth in order to help you to prevent something.

Then there were the times when it was first starting where I tried to prevent things but did not understand my dreams well enough to be successful. An example would be of a dream I had when I first met Brian that I was going to be mugged and killed with either a bullet to either my head or my heart within two weeks time. I had never been mugged before so figured it was because I had moved in the city. I started meditating really hard trying to change things in myself to prevent it but felt like I simply couldn't change enough. I even met with an insurance agent to possibly buy life insurance. I decided to go stay out with my parents instead where it was "safe" - but I made a mistake that I would never make at this point - I missed important clues where the robbery was going to take place in the dream. Two weeks later I was robbed with a gun to my head out in the safe suburbs. The friend I was with almost got us killed resisting - but because of my dream and intuition and all the meditation before I was able to prevent myself from getting shot. I wasn't able to prevent the mugging, but I did prevent the shooting. When the police officer picked me up he looked at me and said to me, "Forgive me for saying this, but you do not look like someone that was just robbed at gunpoint." I said, "Two weeks ago I had a dream that I was going to be shot in the head within two weeks and I'm still alive. I'm relieved - happy."

If I had the same dream today - none of it would have ever had a chance of happening because I would have known not to have gone to my parents home - which was the setting for the dream and other quite obvious (to me now) indicators.

When you have just ONE such powerful experience - you no longer doubt. If you've had as many as I've had - they just become tools that you use often - like your phone. If a hunter gatherer saw you use a phone and someone telling you in advance something is on its way to you it would seem like magic. It's not magic, it's just a phone system I have with my unconscious that other people might not have or haven't turned on yet.