Author Topic: How to eat raw steak?  (Read 28938 times)

0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline ys

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,323
    • View Profile
Re: How to eat raw steak?
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2013, 01:12:08 am »
Quote
WHy he would lie about frozen meat being bad for you I do not know. If someone has a theory as to why he lied about this please let me know.

You have no idea how many self-proclaimed gurus talk nonsense.  Blindly take someone's words just because they said so is really silly.

I have not seen any evidence that freezing changes chemical composition.  If chemistry is not affected then to me frozen means as good as new.

Offline LePatron7

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,672
    • View Profile
Re: How to eat raw steak?
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2013, 01:15:52 am »
I'm not necessarily saying he's lying. But I don't believe what he says because he provides no proof. If I was to say, write a book on how effective my treatment is, I'd provide medical records as proof that I have such an illness. The fact that he makes such claims about having the illnesses he had, without providing any proof. Gives me enough reason to not believe that he ever had such illnesses.

The studies he's supposedly done without any documentation, pictures, etc. makes me question whether he ever performed such studies. The fact he toutes a fake phd makes me question his credibility as well.

But honestly, maybe he is lying intentionally. There's money to be made on sick people who have tried everything to cure their ailments. The medical and pharma industry do it, so why should we believe he wouldn't do something like that too?

Just read this article - http://www.drbass.com/aajonus.html

He claims to have suffered from virtually every illness there is.

"My dyslexia and autism, which no one understood at the time, embarrassed and frustrated my parents."

" I developed peritonitis which was a severe intestinal infection"

My bones were brittle, and I regularly broke bones in my limbs. I was diagnosed as borderline diabetic at 13. I developed angina pectoris muscle spasms in and around the heart by age 15½. I was diagnosed with juvenile diabetes at that age.

"At 19 I developed an ulcer that turned tumorous after medical therapies. After surgery the incision turned tumorous from outer skin to stomach. It was large. Doctors ordered it irradiated. and that caused me to develop Multiple Myeloma (blood and bone cancers)."

"A volunteer for a hospice gave me a small booklet written by a woman who cured herself of cancer by drinking raw carrot juice. I thought that was pretty bizarre and unrealistic. But read the book anyway. I tried the carrot juice.
Within 10 days my dyslexia vanished. There I was at 22 years old never having read more than 20 pages of a book, finally able to read." - So how did he read that book in the first place, was it less than 20 pages?

"The macrobiotic diet seemed to put my cancers in remission but exacerbated my diabetes and psoriasis."

"After 2½ years my cancers resurged. Rather than fight it. I chose to die. I selected an old Native American burial ground and began fasting myself to death. After several weeks fasting I had an unusual experience with coyotes. They gave me a freshly killed wild jackrabbit. I thought it would kill me if I ate it raw. (I had been told by all of my medically and scientifically minded relatives that wild rabbits contained bacteria or virus that would kill a human.)"

I'm not saying it's impossible to be true. And I'm not saying he's necessarily pushing this diet to take advantage of sick people (though he does charge a lot for those hour sessions). I'm just saying without proof of at least him having those illnesses, you're believing a whole lot based on someone's word alone.
Disclaimer: I was told I was misdiagnosed over 10 years ago, and I haven't taken any medication in over a decade.

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: How to eat raw steak?
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2013, 01:36:28 am »
I believe Aajonus re freezing mentions as I have seen other scientific data which showed that enzymes were slightly harmed by freezing etc.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline aLptHW4k4y

  • Shaman
  • *****
  • Posts: 447
    • View Profile
Re: How to eat raw steak?
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2013, 01:38:44 am »
I eat mainly frozen food and I don't notice any negative effects.
Same here; in fact I buy fresh, unfrozen meat and anyway freeze it myself out of convenience.

this comment is clearly the exact same thing and is not helping anybody. He is talking about how cooked foods are fine. He should go on the cooked paleo forum to talk that nonsense not here.

and please alp, since your dogs did so well on cooked food you should probably start eating some too.  ;)
Don't get me wrong, I didn't say they wouldn't be better off with raw meat, just that I have never observed such conditions in mine (or friends' dogs), and I told what we were feeding them. The fact that the food we would give to them would typically be both cooked and frozen makes the claim that just frozen but still raw meat causing issues seem way exaggerated.

Offline aLptHW4k4y

  • Shaman
  • *****
  • Posts: 447
    • View Profile
Re: How to eat raw steak?
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2013, 01:43:35 am »
I believe Aajonus re freezing mentions as I have seen other scientific data which showed that enzymes were slightly harmed by freezing etc.
The key is slightly, that it's not even worth debating it..

Offline svrn

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,884
    • View Profile
Re: How to eat raw steak?
« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2013, 01:45:40 am »
I am not blindly following aajonus claim of his experiment. I simply believe it because it confirms all the other research I have done.

WE all know that freezing kills off parasites for one thing. Do you think its the only thing altered? Please just do a tiny bit of research to find the countless numbers of changes a food goes through after freezing.

heres the first hit on google. there are many more to be found.

http://www.pfionline.com/index.php/columns/cold-chain/86-physical-and-biochemical-changes-during-freezing-and-frozen-storage

please stop bringing your silly completely unscientific anecdotes into this. You feeding your dogs whatever you can find including raw cooked and frozen simply cannot prove anything since there are so many variables.

it is more than slightly and a ;lot more is damaged than the enzymes. pretty much every aspect of the meat changes. You can see all this in even the mainstream article I posted.
-----------

Offline aLptHW4k4y

  • Shaman
  • *****
  • Posts: 447
    • View Profile
Re: How to eat raw steak?
« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2013, 01:56:30 am »
please stop bringing your silly completely unscientific anecdotes into this. You feeding your dogs whatever you can find including raw cooked and frozen simply cannot prove anything since there are so many variables.
Ok, can you bring the scientific support then for your and Aajonus' claim? That freezing has any measurable impact on the health of dogs and humans (not that it changes food, this is pretty evident).

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: How to eat raw steak?
« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2013, 02:12:06 am »
The key is slightly, that it's not even worth debating it..
Well, Aajonus claims that freezing destroys 25% of an enzyme's worth. That seems to imply that the denaturing of enzymes I mentioned re that lost web-link was correct.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline svrn

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,884
    • View Profile
Re: How to eat raw steak?
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2013, 02:13:20 am »
Ok, can you bring the scientific support then for your and Aajonus' claim? That freezing has any measurable impact on the health of dogs and humans (not that it changes food, this is pretty evident).

please stop trolling me. I posted mainstream science in regards to this in my last post.

and if you  need it spelled out for you how these changes affect a persons health please refer to the newbies section for all of the studies saying why these chemical changes in our food are detrimental.
-----------

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: How to eat raw steak?
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2013, 02:20:26 am »
please stop trolling me. I posted mainstream science in regards to this in my last post.


For someone to use "troll" in their username, the above is somewhat hypocritical....
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 02:04:46 pm by TylerDurden »
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline svrn

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,884
    • View Profile
Re: How to eat raw steak?
« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2013, 02:31:24 am »
its just a username. I dont troll anyone.

im referring to the mythical creature in my avatar, not the modern act of internet trolling.

it may be ironic due to the name but i definitly wouldnt call it hypocritical since I dont troll people.

I am a pretty big hypocrite though, just not in this case.

the kind of troll I am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll

the kind of troll alp is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
-----------

Offline LePatron7

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,672
    • View Profile
Re: How to eat raw steak?
« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2013, 02:46:36 am »
Troll, that link seems to show that there are changes that take place, ie it hardens and expands. But as far as damaging the meat to be of such low quality that it woulda lead to health problems isn't really mentioned. It says protein is minimally effected. And the conclusion leads me to believe they're supporting freezing  foods properly, not never freezing.
Disclaimer: I was told I was misdiagnosed over 10 years ago, and I haven't taken any medication in over a decade.

Offline svrn

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,884
    • View Profile
Re: How to eat raw steak?
« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2013, 02:58:42 am »
I for one think for myself when I read. so instead of taking the conclusion given to me at the end of the article I read all of the data in it and make up my own mind. In this case I look at what damage is done to the meat and see that it is actually quite substantial. We both see the same data but while i see it as damaging the writers see it as not so bad.

this is akin to an article talking about the changes food undergoes through cooking in detail, having all accurate information about what happens including AGEs enzymes and bacteria yet the article concludes that the damage really isnt that bad and one should cook properly rather than not cooking at all.

would you read such an article and say " all the data here is right about damage through heat so since the data is correct I will just take their conclusion about the data as correct as well"?

I would suggest not to take such a line of thinking.

and please read the whole page. The hardening and expanding is only at the top of the page. The real damage is described lower down.
-----------

Offline aLptHW4k4y

  • Shaman
  • *****
  • Posts: 447
    • View Profile
Re: How to eat raw steak?
« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2013, 04:09:13 am »
the kind of troll alp is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
I'm internet troll because it turns out I don't agree with you?
You tell me to stop with my unscientific anecdotes, but then you get out with something like "if you need to have it spelled out check out this irrelevant article" when asked to provide scientific reference to support your claim: "dogs fed frozen meat develop this and that condition".

Offline svrn

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,884
    • View Profile
Re: How to eat raw steak?
« Reply #39 on: April 04, 2013, 04:45:40 am »
You clearly are being a troll because you are asking for information I already posted.

your trolling is also eveident in your calling the article irrelevant. The article pertains to freezing foods which makes it completely relevant and thats a fact.

You can dispute the articles validity all you want, but it is most certainly completely relevant.

If you still want to call it irrelevant please quote just one sentence that doesnt pertain to the changes food undergoes during freezing.
-----------

Offline svrn

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,884
    • View Profile
Re: How to eat raw steak?
« Reply #40 on: April 04, 2013, 04:48:24 am »
I'm not necessarily saying he's lying. But I don't believe what he says because he provides no proof. If I was to say, write a book on how effective my treatment is, I'd provide medical records as proof that I have such an illness. The fact that he makes such claims about having the illnesses he had, without providing any proof. Gives me enough reason to not believe that he ever had such illnesses.

The studies he's supposedly done without any documentation, pictures, etc. makes me question whether he ever performed such studies. The fact he toutes a fake phd makes me question his credibility as well.

But honestly, maybe he is lying intentionally. There's money to be made on sick people who have tried everything to cure their ailments. The medical and pharma industry do it, so why should we believe he wouldn't do something like that too?

Just read this article - http://www.drbass.com/aajonus.html

He claims to have suffered from virtually every illness there is.

"My dyslexia and autism, which no one understood at the time, embarrassed and frustrated my parents."

" I developed peritonitis which was a severe intestinal infection"

My bones were brittle, and I regularly broke bones in my limbs. I was diagnosed as borderline diabetic at 13. I developed angina pectoris muscle spasms in and around the heart by age 15½. I was diagnosed with juvenile diabetes at that age.

"At 19 I developed an ulcer that turned tumorous after medical therapies. After surgery the incision turned tumorous from outer skin to stomach. It was large. Doctors ordered it irradiated. and that caused me to develop Multiple Myeloma (blood and bone cancers)."

"A volunteer for a hospice gave me a small booklet written by a woman who cured herself of cancer by drinking raw carrot juice. I thought that was pretty bizarre and unrealistic. But read the book anyway. I tried the carrot juice.
Within 10 days my dyslexia vanished. There I was at 22 years old never having read more than 20 pages of a book, finally able to read." - So how did he read that book in the first place, was it less than 20 pages?

"The macrobiotic diet seemed to put my cancers in remission but exacerbated my diabetes and psoriasis."

"After 2½ years my cancers resurged. Rather than fight it. I chose to die. I selected an old Native American burial ground and began fasting myself to death. After several weeks fasting I had an unusual experience with coyotes. They gave me a freshly killed wild jackrabbit. I thought it would kill me if I ate it raw. (I had been told by all of my medically and scientifically minded relatives that wild rabbits contained bacteria or virus that would kill a human.)"

I'm not saying it's impossible to be true. And I'm not saying he's necessarily pushing this diet to take advantage of sick people (though he does charge a lot for those hour sessions). I'm just saying without proof of at least him having those illnesses, you're believing a whole lot based on someone's word alone.

and i dont understand your point in posting this article. I enjoyed reading it very much.
-----------

William

  • Guest
Re: How to eat raw steak?
« Reply #41 on: April 04, 2013, 05:02:27 am »
its just a username. I dont troll anyone.

im referring to the mythical creature in my avatar, not the modern act of internet trolling.

it may be ironic due to the name but i definitly wouldnt call it hypocritical since I dont troll people.

I am a pretty big hypocrite though, just not in this case.

the kind of troll I am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll

the kind of troll alp is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

Wikipedia is corrupt. Corrupted by trolls.

Trolls deny. Whether it is passage over a bridge, or from a state of innocence to a state of wisdom is irrelevant.

Examples: MDs deny that food has any effect on health, others deny that GMO food is poison or that there is a difference between cooked fat and tallow. There are many ways of doing this.

Offline LePatron7

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,672
    • View Profile
Re: How to eat raw steak?
« Reply #42 on: April 04, 2013, 05:11:24 am »
and i dont understand your point in posting this article. I enjoyed reading it very much.

to show my lack of confidence in the study aajonous supposedly did.
Disclaimer: I was told I was misdiagnosed over 10 years ago, and I haven't taken any medication in over a decade.

Offline LePatron7

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,672
    • View Profile
Re: How to eat raw steak?
« Reply #43 on: April 04, 2013, 05:14:40 am »
Examples: MDs deny that food has any effect on health, others deny that GMO food is poison or that there is a difference between cooked fat and tallow. There are many ways of doing this.

Isn't tallow cooked fat?
Disclaimer: I was told I was misdiagnosed over 10 years ago, and I haven't taken any medication in over a decade.

Offline svrn

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,884
    • View Profile
Re: How to eat raw steak?
« Reply #44 on: April 04, 2013, 05:43:23 am »
to show my lack of confidence in the study aajonous supposedly did.

still not sure how the article shows your lack of confidence but ok.

and yes tallow is cooked fat. i dont know what hes talking about.
-----------

William

  • Guest
Re: How to eat raw steak?
« Reply #45 on: April 04, 2013, 06:44:28 am »
Isn't tallow cooked fat?

http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/what-qualifies-as-raw/msg106381/#msg106381
« Reply #7 on: 26 February 2013, 14:40:58 »


Define tallow: rendered beef fat.
Define render: separated fat (or fatty acids) from indigestible connective tissue.
Define beef fat: combined fatty acids and INDIGESTIBLE PROTEINS.

I seems useful to define these terms, as previous "discussion" without definition has led to confusion and ill feeling.

Might better define tallow as practically pure Essential Fatty Acids, every cell wall in a healthy body includes these, while cooked fat includes both EFAs and cooked proteins.

BTW tallow is also made by centrifuge.
http://www.ajbush.com.au/manufacturers
http://www.indiamart.com/kovai-designs/meat-meal-equipments.html#tallow-fat-separator-basket-centrifuge
http://www.hutch-hayes.com/app-meatrendering.html
http://mrwhatis.com/beef-fat-uses.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendering_(food_processing)#Rendering_processes_for_edible_products


William

  • Guest
Re: How to eat raw steak?
« Reply #46 on: April 04, 2013, 06:48:14 am »
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 07:04:40 am by William »

Offline cherimoya_kid

  • One who bans trolls
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,513
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: How to eat raw steak?
« Reply #47 on: April 04, 2013, 08:40:03 am »
Tallow is rendered fat.

http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/2009/11/10/food-for-thought-lard-and-tallow-healthy-fats/

William, fair warning...I'm going to start deleting and modifying your posts if you keep trolling for tallow.

It's your choice.

William

  • Guest
Re: How to eat raw steak?
« Reply #48 on: April 04, 2013, 10:51:22 am »
William, fair warning...I'm going to start deleting and modifying your posts if you keep trolling for tallow.

It's your choice.

cherimoya_kid, you and others, notably tyler durden are so obviously trolls that I must consider that saving you from your folly is impossible.
But if I'm wrong and you ever wake from your nightmare, I suggest you try the raw paleolithic diet.

Offline LePatron7

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,672
    • View Profile
Re: How to eat raw steak?
« Reply #49 on: April 04, 2013, 03:49:35 pm »
I suppose centrifuged tallow would be raw. But to just say tallow is raw when it's usually rendered by process of heating  is misleading.
Disclaimer: I was told I was misdiagnosed over 10 years ago, and I haven't taken any medication in over a decade.

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk