Japan has highest Stomach Cancer rates

[vernon]

When i heard this from my friend, i was shocked. I went to verfiy, its indeed true.

The population of Japan is lesser than United States, but cancer for stomach rates is 10 times
higher.

My friend said this is due to Japanese eating raw meat. What do you guys think?

[xylothrill]

Vernon,

It's probably more due to hot tea and soups that anything else. Do you have references for this? A friend of mine is an American Philippine of Chinese decent and he's told me about his relatives that have died of esophageal/ stomach cancer and that they'd frequently consumed hot (temperature-wise) soups and teas. 

Be careful not to correlate cancer rates and raw meat consumption without considering all other factors.

Again, what references do you have?

Craig

[vernon]

Many other countries also drink lots of tea, like China, etc.

Japan is the only few countries who eat raw fish and other raw meat, thats why my friend
was suspicious over eating raw.

[xylothrill]

Vernon,

Please, some references would be nice. Northern Europeans as well as North Western Northern American's eat raw fish and  mammals and are better for it. They don't get cancer.

Have a look at: http://www.rawpaleodiet.com/nutrition/
and: http://www.rawpaleodiet.com/anti-raw-bias-on-beyondveg-com-website-debunked/

Anything else, Edwin might be able to explain regarding your area and his.

Craig

[TylerDurden]

I should make 2 points. First of all, the Japanese eat a lot of very unhealthy foods such as rice and soy as well. They do eat raw seafood but also cooked seafood. And the Japanese(both male and female) happen to have the highest life-expectancy of any nation in the world. According to the very few studies on Japan and stomach-cancer. some either claim no dietary link to cancer and link smoking to stomach-cancer specifically, while others. such as these ones, point out that raw fruit and raw veg-consumption lower the risk of stomach-cancer while consumption of processed meats , like broiled meats or smoked meats, actually greatly elevates the risk:-

http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article/200207/000020020702A0008496.php

http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/full/13/9/1422

While the various studies cited focus on raw vegetables, I should point out that it's not likely that fruit and veg lowered cancer-risk by themselves as they are less nutritionally-dense than raw animal foods. A far more likely explanation is that the likelihood of stomach-cancer is greatly increased if one eats a diet high in AGEs/advanced glycation endproducts(toxins produced by cooking), so that, by turning to a raw plant-food diet, the body is no longer taking in such toxins and can slowly get rid of the toxin-load already present, thus lowering the risk of stomach-cancer, over time.

[DameonWolf]

I think they also eat a lot of smoked foods, which could have that effect.

[avalon]

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/173/4002/1141

Talc-Treated Rice and Japanese Stomach Cancer

The Japanese prefer talc-dusted rice in their diet. The incidence of stomach cancer in Japan is unusually high. Most talc has some asbestos contaminants. Epidemiologic evidence is presented that the asbestos-contaminated talc on rice in the diet is the carcinogen or cocarcinogen responsible for the high incidence of Japanese stomach cancer.

[Michael]

That's an interesting reference Avalon.

I've just briefly skimmed through a few reports from PubMed (currently studying Biosciences at Uni I'm luck enough to have access to journal articles!) and it seems that heliobacter pylori is very strongly indicated as a causality.  If anyone's interested I could post further links or details.  Heliobacter pylori was classified by the WHO as a Class I carcinogen linked to causing stomach cancer on a par with smoking and lung cancer!

I guess the question then becomes WHY is there a much higher incidence of heliobacter pylori infection in Japan and why does it lead to higher stomach cancer rates there than in other countries (when supposedly half the world population have the bacterium living in the mucous lining of the stomach wall)?

[JaX]

[Stomach cancer] represents roughly 2% (25,500 cases) of all new cancer cases yearly in the United States, but it is much more common in Korea, Japan, Great Britain, South America, and Iceland.

Gastric cancer has very high incidence in Korea and Japan. It is the leading cancer type in Korea with 20.8% of malignant neoplasms, and the second leading cause of cancer deaths.

Infection with the bacterium H. pylori is the main risk factor in about 80% or more of gastric cancers. A Korean diet, high in salted, stewed and broiled foods, is thought to be a contributing factor. Ten percent of cases show a genetic component. In Japan and other countries bracken consumption and spores are correlated to stomach cancer incidence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stomach_cancer

People who eat lots of highly salted food double their risk of stomach cancer, research suggests... Scientists know that high salt intake can induce atrophic gastritis - a precursor to stomach cancer.

Salting, pickling and smoking are traditionally popular ways of preparing food in Japan. Pickled vegetable and noodles are rich in sodium and low in vitamin C.

As the Japanese diet has become increasingly westernised there has been a noticeable drop in the rates of stomach cancer but an increase in the rates of breast and bowel cancers, emphasising the role of diet in the disease.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3370141.stm

"Why does gastric cancer occur so frequently in Japan?" One answer was proposed more than 30 years ago by Matsudo et al.,2 who detected talc in the normal gastric mucosa and in gastric cancers in Japanese patients and suggested a causal relationship.

Talc is used in Japan to polish rice, and it is customary to wash off the talc before cooking the rice. However, if the washing is insufficient, talc is ingested. Talc is a hydrated magnesium silicate

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/359/22/2393

This is one of those things where there are many factors involved.. Nutrition, genetics, lifestyle or a combination of them. It's hard to pinpoint exactly which factor is responsible for a disease such as stomach cancer, but it might well be one or more of those I've quoted above.

I don't think raw meat is a factor, or that raw fish consumption is the reason why there's a higher incident of stomach cancer in Japan.. on the contrary:

Several studies published since 1990 indicate that cooking muscle meat creates heterocyclic amines (HCAs), which are thought to increase cancer risk in humans. Researchers at the National Cancer Institute found that human subjects who ate beef rare or medium-rare had less than one third the risk of stomach cancer than those who ate beef medium-well or well-done.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raw_foodism


I'm still not convinced that bacterial infections such as bacterium H. pylori are the root cause of any cancer. It all starts with the condition of your body. Most bacterial infections should be viewed as a SYMPTOM of a polluted body, bad health, poor nutrition, rather than a cause of anything.

[Raw Kyle]

Looking at all of the references here I would say that to me the strongest one seems to be the talc.

Perhaps somewhere there is a comparative list of stomach cancer rates before they started using talc to polish rice and after? Unfortunately that was probably before the statistics of disease started, perhaps even before cancer was a recognized disease. I have no idea when talc started to be used for polishing rice but I would make a guess that it's older than the cancer industry.

[vernon]

Thanks for everyones opinion. Its an interesting discussion.

I dont think genetics play an important role. Genes only decide which disease a person gets upon interaction with toxins and the polluted environment.

Unfortunately, the human body is too complicated. But its indeed suspicious why the rates in Japan is so much higher than other countries.

To summarize, i do hope and believe that the reasons for that is

1) Japanese takes alot of rice polished from Talc
2) They also take alot of smoked, broiled meat

I hope the reason is not raw fish because im starting to include raw fish in my diet.
I hope God doesnt punish us for eating raw

[reyyzl]

Thanks for everyones opinion. Its an interesting discussion.

I dont think genetics play an important role. Genes only decide which disease a person gets upon interaction with toxins and the polluted environment.

Unfortunately, the human body is too complicated. But its indeed suspicious why the rates in Japan is so much higher than other countries.

To summarize, i do hope and believe that the reasons for that is

1) Japanese takes alot of rice polished from Talc
2) They also take alot of smoked, broiled meat

I hope the reason is not raw fish because im starting to include raw fish in my diet.
I hope God doesnt punish us for eating raw

    Which God?  My God created raw and doesn't like fire all that much.  Fire helps destroy very often.  God creates.  My God is not sadistic, punitive nor mean.  Raw meat eating helps heal stomach ulcers.  How on Earth would it go from there to cancer?  I read it was salty miso, salty tamari and the like that makes their diet more stomach cancer causing, not God punishing them.  I'm sorry, but your reasoning is not computing well with me just yet.

[RawZi]

im starting to include raw fish in my diet.

    Did you start?  What kind of  fish?  Have you eaten much meat yet?  Any raw?  Clue us in, please?

[vernon]

Rawzi,

I started eating raw swordfish, salmon, tuna. Seems not bad. Taste original.

[Satya]

To summarize, i do hope and believe that the reasons for that is

1) Japanese takes alot of rice polished from Talc
2) They also take alot of smoked, broiled meat

I hope the reason is not raw fish because im starting to include raw fish in my diet.

They eat a ton of salt, soy sauce, umeboshi, etc.  I have heard this as a possible cause.  One interesting point is that a large percentage of Japanese smoke, yet they have low lung cancer rates.

[RawZi]

    Cigarette smoking is not only a cause of lung cancer, but a cause of stomach ulcers too.  A chain's strength is its weakest link.  Everyone has a different weakness.  Maybe Japanese have weaker stomachs, and we have weaker lungs.  Maybe before they get stomach cancer, they get some kind of ulceration first.  It's said that cancer doesn't develop in a day.

They eat a ton of salt, soy sauce, umeboshi, etc.  I have heard this as a possible cause.  One interesting point is that a large percentage of Japanese smoke, yet they have low lung cancer rates.

[political atheist]

They eat a ton of salt, soy sauce, umeboshi, etc.  I have heard this as a possible cause.  One interesting point is that a large percentage of Japanese smoke, yet they have low lung cancer rates.

the healthiest and oldest japanese(100+ years old) eat 30- 60grams of salt per day... i guess salt is not an issue....

[APhossinnams]

 The ED due to that surgery can be either temporary or permanent.  He is content, along with the opposite of our thoughts later years has in store for us.

[tding]

High intake of excessively fermented foods have to be part of this