Just Reminiscing

[joej627]

Had some amazing beef yesterday.  Haven't had beef for a few months.  Been eating a lot of lamb and salmon.  So this was ground sirloin slowly heated in the oven (not above 90 degrees) with bone marrow melted on top near the end with a little sea-salt.  DELICIOUS.  Sat really well. Probably had almost half pound.  I was just sitting there remembering the feeling that I would have with 1/2 pound of COOKED hamburger in my stomach.  I was just curious if anyone ever gets that smile on their face with smooth burning raw meat knowing that it's so easy in the stomach and digestion =)  It's good to remember such things.

-Joe

[Barefoot Instincto]

200 grams or so of cooked beef really made you feel that terrible? How cooked was it? :/ I regularly eat 300+ grams of beef at a time, a lot of days in a row. Maybe this was a mental thing. It can be powerful.

I myself am currently eating on average a good kilo of meat per day. This is mainly lightly cooked meat, and not always fully cooked on the inside. I keep it nice and gentle.

Been making me feel just fine. Better to this date than I have in my life. I'm the leanest also, and with the most muscle I've had and overall strength. Its happening quickly, and very pleasantly.

I use to be a much bigger advocate of plant foods (although I do still consume much of them) but now I realize meat needs to take center stage, and a lot of it. It has the biggest impact on health and is way more bio-available. So far, lightly cooked and semi raw meats (with an inclusion of raw eggs) seems to be doing the trick!

[eveheart]

I, too, reminisce. Sometimes reminiscing is what keeps me from making raw food choices. Like you, I am very sensitive to eating animal foods that have been toughened by heat. I may be tempted by the aroma of cooked foods, but a quick stroll down memory lane reminds me how much I love the feeling of an easy-to-digest meal.

[cherimoya_kid]

I digest cooked meat about as well as raw meat.  The main reasons I keep eating raw meat/fish are:

1.  It's easier.  I don't have to cook anything, and dishwashing is easier too.

2. Eating raw improves my aerobic capacity.  I see no reason to reduce my aerobic capacity.

3. I've read that raw protein is more absorbable than cooked protein, and I don't want to deprive my body of the protein it needs.

4. I'm concerned that even fairly light cooking, over decades, could cause some faster aging and other gradual health problems.

[TylerDurden]

I have increasingly found that digesting cooked foods has become more and more difficult over the years.  At first, I found immediately after switching to 100% raw,  that cooked foods took longer to digest and caused me stomach-aches, though the latter  symptom  slowly disappeared as I regained my health. I soon swiftly discovered that I couldn't swallow any croisssants or any other pastry without swallowing some water with them - I never had a problem with that in pre-RPD days.

Since then, over a longer period, cooked foods have taken so long to digest that I can only eat a small amount of them at a time or I start vomiting the stuff out  soon afterwards. Not a pleasant experience if I overindulge in restaurants, I can tell you.

The way I see it, if one is eating raw foods as a staple of one's diet, then certain changes  usually gradually happen such as less stomach acid needing to be produced, plus different bacteria appearing in the gut which digest raw foods better than cooked, plus less mucus being produced in the throat, and so on and on. So that, after a while, even if one is originally fine digesting  cooked foods, one generally   becomes less so, over time.

[Barefoot Instincto]

I think I may see it then as more of an advantage in my favour (being that I'm fine not eating the optimal way of completely raw meats, and find large distaste in it still).

Times may change. The world could and probably will go to shit. In most nations, eating this well could be a long, long thing of the past. If that day ever comes, perhaps my epi-genetic programing of a partially cooked and raw diet will fair me much better in the long run. To boot, as long as I "move" the proper way and train my body correctly, I'll also experience incredible health benefits that will no doubt STILL take me into my 90's (and at this age in human history, I'm actually hoping for a technological boost of up to 200 years old).

I'm not so believing anymore that lightly cooked protein is all that much worse, especially if it has half-cooked type components. Certainly there must be a loss, but it may only amount to 10 or 20 percent. Now, what is indeed definitely certain is the extra nasty toxins it creates.

[cherimoya_kid]

I think I may see it then as more of an advantage in my favour (being that I'm fine not eating the optimal way of completely raw meats, and find large distaste in it still).

what about raw fish?  Do you really not like raw tuna, or any raw fish or shellfish?

[Barefoot Instincto]

When I did my little raw stint in the Summer I tried eating raw fish. Mainly salmon, and got it down decently well. But it was not pleasant.

I find I dislike the taste, generally, of seafood. Which is a shame because its so great for you. Even cooked I do not enjoy. Crab type things I think I could be into.

Also possibly a sushi bar, which I've never actually tried but have been meaning to. A good full belly of raw seafood once a week certainly sounds appealing and is something I think I'm definitely going to do now!

On the topic of lightly cooked meat, however, I find I digest it extremely well. I feel the urge to eat it at least 3 times a day, in large numbers, and never have problems (quite the opposite). I'm a highly active 24 year old, mind you. My job requires constant movement, and then on both my weekend days off I do intense workouts.

I avoid most processed things and cheat only 3 or 4 times out of the week now (and 2 of those end up being still mainly fat and meat based, the others nuts, coconut and 90 percent dark chocolate based with the odd SAD meal). So my diet is still so many times better than my co-workers, for instance, who literally chug down hundreds of carbs (from the worst sources) before the afternoon is even over. And it certainly shows! I'm starting to catch people looking at me as I get leaner and more muscular.

I don't partake in organ consumption, although I do think its a good idea. I think the only way I'd be open to it on a regular basis would be if I cut them into tiny bits, and then froze the bits and ate them out of the freezer.

[Wai Kai Zen]

I digest cooked meat about as well as raw meat.  The main reasons I keep eating raw meat/fish are:

1.  It's easier.  I don't have to cook anything, and dishwashing is easier too.

2. Eating raw improves my aerobic capacity.  I see no reason to reduce my aerobic capacity.

3. I've read that raw protein is more absorbable than cooked protein, and I don't want to deprive my body of the protein it needs.

4. I'm concerned that even fairly light cooking, over decades, could cause some faster aging and other gradual health problems.

When I started the paleo thing I thought sugar was the worst thing ever for the body. But I noticed that people who are overweight generally eat alot of animal foods... cooked animal foods. Alot of eggs, bacon and cheese and they get fat fast. These are foods that are highly addicitive. When I started fitness 8 years ago I ate more cooked animal products to build muscle, but I also noticed my bodyfat was going up and I didnt understand that, because I was low carb/sugar. So I dont know if it was Aajonus who said it, but I do remember someone from the raw paleo community say that.. the best food raw is the worst food cooked. I think this might be right. What do you guys think?

[TylerDurden]

I suspect it was I who said that.  There are plenty of scientific studies showing that cooked animal foods, especially cooked animal fats, contain the highest load of heat-created toxins in them.

[Wai Kai Zen]

I suspect it was I who said that.  There are plenty of scientific studies showing that cooked animal foods, especially cooked animal fats, contain the highest load of heat-created toxins in them.

That brings me to another question, something I heard a drugaddict ask to himself aswell.
-Why is it that the things that kill us (toxins, cooked meat, drugs, alcohol) are so addictive?
I do not understand why the body gives off signals that it wants to poison itself..
Could someone explain this to me in a simple way, without difficult terminologies etc. It is much appreciated. 

[Iguana]

Yes, the answer is simple : all the stuff you mention are quite new in an evolutionary timescale. They are very seldom (if at all) found in such form in nature and became common only after mankind became able to make them. Therefore the alimentary instinct of animals and humans had not enough duration to get adapted to these products (to take their harmfulness into account), moreover as the selective pressure is low for most of them, allowing enough time to the individuals consuming them to reproduce before being too sick and die.

Said in an even simpler way, the body doesn’t know it is poisoning itself, unlike with things which have been in the environment for hundreds millions of years and trigger an instinctive “stop” signal before being consumed in a dose that would become harmful.

[Wai Kai Zen]

Yes, the answer is simple : all the stuff you mention are quite new in an evolutionary timescale. They are very seldom (if at all) found in such form in nature and became common only after mankind became able to make them. Therefore the alimentary instinct of animals and humans had not enough duration to get adapted to these products (to take their harmfulness into account), moreover as the selective pressure is low for most of them, allowing enough time to the individuals consuming them to reproduce before being too sick and die.

Said in an even simpler way, the body doesn’t know it is poisoning itself, unlike with things which have been in the environment for hundreds millions of years and trigger an instinctive “stop” signal before being consumed in a dose that would become harmful.

Thanks for your explanation and I do think what you say makes sense .
However, not recognizing these substances as a toxin or craving these toxic substances are two different things.
I know that your about instinctive eating, but where does this get a place in this.
If I would go by smell and taste I would definetly go for eating cooked meat/eggs over raw meat/eggs.
So maybe it is because weve messed up our system and were not really craving the things we really need, thats why our health is in danger.

I too notice myself have cravings now and then, but the difference is that afterwards I notice that it wasnt a smart idea for me to give in to the craving. Same as Tyler said earlier.  Maybe, once 'cleaned/healed' or stay away from bad options from quite some time, that I stop craving bad options?
Bottom line is, right now I can not trust my senses to make a good choice for me, only my memory can help me. So, thats not instinctive eating, is it?

 

[eveheart]

If I would go by smell and taste I would definetly go for eating cooked meat/eggs over raw meat/eggs.
So maybe it is because weve messed up our system and were not really craving the things we really need, thats why our health is in danger.

I too notice myself have cravings now and then, but the difference is that afterwards I notice that it wasnt a smart idea for me to give in to the craving. Same as Tyler said earlier.  Maybe, once 'cleaned/healed' or stay away from bad options from quite some time, that I stop craving bad options?
Bottom line is, right now I can not trust my senses to make a good choice for me, only my memory can help me. So, thats not instinctive eating, is it?

This is why instinctive eating in our modern day has to come with the instructions: do not eat processed foods, where processing means cooking, grinding, seasoning, etc. Once we get rid of the inventions of food processing, the instinct that directs us to eat proper food reappears. This instinct goes way beyond our habitual culinary likes and dislikes, which seemed to be ruled by exaggerated flavors.

[RogueFarmer]

For the first few months I was eating raw eggs, they were from my ducks who were living off of cow pats, spring grass and swamp muck, their yolks were so orange they were more orange than an orange, like a sunset, orange like a stop sign is red. They made me feel kind of stoned, but really really good and  clean and clear headed and happy. It was like the best drug ever.  I usually only eat eggs in season now and cooked eggs are grotesque. I don't eat a lot of eggs, I think I am going to go break open 5-7 of them and drink up.

We have these multi color duck eggs right now, pale whitish, blue, green, red speckled and pink. Same ol' duck egg though.

Muscovy duck eggs are better though.

[TylerDurden]

   Err, it seems I really did say the above, but it was indeed Aajonus who first stated that the best food raw was the worst food cooked.

[Iguana]

Thanks for your explanation and I do think what you say makes sense .
However, not recognizing these substances as a toxin or craving these toxic substances are two different things.

Not so much different, I think. When you eat unprocessed paleo foods, everyone of these foods triggers a stop, so that you can only eat it in limited amount – sometimes in several successive meals till you’ve filled a need. It’s not the case with processed food, dairy, or various substances : it remains always identically tasty, so that we tend to crave for it. Even more so with some drugs as well as with dairy and cereal grains, which contains opioids. 

I know that your about instinctive eating, but where does this get a place in this.
If I would go by smell and taste I would definetly go for eating cooked meat/eggs over raw meat/eggs. So maybe it is because we’ve messed up our system and were not really craving the things we really need, thats why our health is in danger.

Cooked, mixed and spiced foods deceive our instinct, as Eveheart explained.

I too notice myself have cravings now and then, but the difference is that afterwards I notice that it wasnt a smart idea for me to give in to the craving. Same as Tyler said earlier.  Maybe, once 'cleaned/healed' or stay away from bad options from quite some time, that I stop craving bad options?

For me it took a couple of years or even more till my cravings for cooked foods vanished. To deal with it, I told myself that I’ll eat those cooked foods again once my raw paleo experience will be over, as advised by GCB, planning this experience for one week only, then for one month, then for 3 months, then for a year, then for a second year… with the option either to stop it at the end of the period or to renew it for another period.

Bottom line is, right now I can not trust my senses to make a good choice for me, only my memory can help me. So, thats not instinctive eating, is it?

Why not trust your senses, as long as the food is raw paleo, unprocessed, unmixed, unspiced? Our memory is reminiscent of a previous experience when we were in certain state; but we change, our condition and needs fluctuate with time. We are not static, but dynamic beings.

Thus, we should constantly remain in an interrogative state, asking our senses “will this food be good for me this time?” rather than referring to our memory of that particular food's taste last time we ate it.

Moreover, since we’ve previously been eating cooked food during decades, a specific raw paleo foodstuff can trigger a detoxination process the first times we eat it. If we trust our memory, we will remember this unpleasant experience and avoid that foodstuff for ever, which is a mistake because it could well be this precise stuff which is allowing our body to get rid of some particular toxins previously accepted and accumulated — because there was nothing better suited. (I see that you diverge of GCB on this, Eveheart). 

[Wai Kai Zen]

  Err, it seems I really did say the above, but it was indeed Aajonus who first stated that the best food raw was the worst food cooked.

Haha So you both agree on that part, as do I.

[Wai Kai Zen]

Not so much different, I think. When you eat unprocessed paleo foods, everyone of these foods triggers a stop, so that you can only eat it in limited amount – sometimes in several successive meals till you’ve filled a need. It’s not the case with processed food, dairy, or various substances : it remains always identically tasty, so that we tend to crave for it. Even more so with some drugs as well as with dairy and cereal grains, which contains opioids. 

Cooked, mixed and spiced foods deceive our instinct, as Eveheart explained.

For me it took a couple of years or even more till my cravings for cooked foods vanished. To deal with it, I told myself that I’ll eat those cooked foods again once my raw paleo experience will be over, as advised by GCB, planning this experience for one week only, then for one month, then for 3 months, then for a year, then for a second year… with the option either to stop it at the end of the period or to renew it for another period.

Why not trust your senses, as long as the food is raw paleo, unprocessed, unmixed, unspiced? Our memory is reminiscent of a previous experience when we were in certain state; but we change, our condition and needs fluctuate with time. We are not static, but dynamic beings.

Thus, we should constantly remain in an interrogative state, asking our senses “will this food be good for me this time?” rather than referring to our memory of that particular food's taste last time we ate it.

Moreover, since we’ve previously been eating cooked food during decades, a specific raw paleo foodstuff can trigger a detoxination process the first times we eat it. If we trust our memory, we will remember this unpleasant experience and avoid that foodstuff for ever, which is a mistake because it could well be this precise stuff which is allowing our body to get rid of some particular toxins previously accepted and accumulated — because there was nothing better suited. (I notice that you diverge of GCB on this, Eveheart).

Thanks Iguana, Tyler and Eveheart for taking the time to answer my questions, I learn alot and what you say makes sense.
Ofcourse I always keep questioning ideas/thoughts/theories, but your views bring me further in my journey .

I believe alot of it is trial and error and learning from mistakes. Taking into account that raw unprocessed foods should be (and are) the only options to choose from, speeds up the learning process.
 

[William]

When you eat unprocessed paleo foods, everyone of these foods triggers a stop. 

I've had many stops, when I used to cheat on the diet. The only ones I remember are not paleofood, such as fruit or Polish sausage.

Now that I eat strictly raw paleo, I stop eating when satisfied. This AFAIK is a function of enough fat/EFAs

[Iguana]

So, you assume there was no fruits during the Paleolithic era? 

A few weeks ago I talked on the phone with one of the three “instincto” guys who went in exploration without taking any food supplies into the primary rain forest where the orangutans live. I’m not sure if it was in Sumatra or in Borneo, I should ask him again but he lives in Jakarta and he was only shortly in France.

Anyway… I asked him what they found to eat in this jungle. He said they ate almost only fruits, various species of unknown wild fruits and he said it was not a problem because their trip lasted only 10 days. The fruits were high in the trees, so they had to climb after having thrown a rope.

And last week a met the father of an instincto family who lived  half a year in French Guyana. I also asked him what food they found in the Amazonian primary forest. He said there is about 150 different species of wild fruits, also all high in the trees.

[Wai Kai Zen]

So, you assume there was no fruits during the Paleolithic era? 

I believe there were fruits in the paleolithic era, though there is a big difference with fruits nowadays.
Where fruits nowadays are sweet they used to be bitter.
This comes down to something Ive been looking for quite some time..

I made a topic today (which I removed) about vitamin C. After alot of experimenting I noticed it wasnt sugar I missed onmy diet, nor was it carbs or minerals. Although knowing that there is vitamin C in raw egg yolk, I still felt better when I took in raw fruits and I been thinking and researching what it mightve been. I noticed a difference between taking in the whole fruit vs juicing, so it had to do something with the peel. Peels of fruits are very bitter and dont taste really good. But u get some white strings from fruits that stick to oranges/bananas that still are a little bitter and I eat it and it helps.
Ive PM'ed u last week about why people use lemon juice cleanse and I thought it was because of the sourness, but lemon can be bitter aswell.. and this is the kind that helps.

Looking into bitterness and healing some more did lead me to some more info. How bitter foods help the gallbladder excrete cholesterol. Now, I made the connection with people drinking beer and burping/farting alot (I live in a house with college students  ) and they feel the need to go to the bathroom more. The alcohol definetly doesnt help with this (wine doesnt do this) so I searched for bitter in beer, and there it is.. Hop is very bitter. Im pretty sure this is the component which brings the good feeling (excreting toxins) more so than alcohol.

Now taking in more bitter drinks I notice Im burping/farting way more, and my body relaxing. I will update later this week to tell my further experience with bitter.
To clarify, Im not thinking bitter food/drink is really needed for nutrients, but its rather a medicine.

 

[Wai Kai Zen]

To add with the above story:

People on a 'normal' diet are not excreting cholesterol at a rate that I am (we are) so they do not need so much bitterness in their diet to feel normal. Since I take in a lot of cholesterol my liver/gallbladder wants to dump alot and this creates some pressure in my body.

Someone on a 'normal' diet would be allright with just the coffee they drink. Someone who does a gallbladder flush takes in epsom salt (bittersalt) and takes in more bitterness. Someone on a lemon juice fast will feel better/lighter after this fast.
These are substances that are bitter.

-Caffeine.
-Cacao.
-THC.
-XTC.

Kind of getting the picture why they are so addictive...