Aerobic vs. Anaerobic bacteria

[LePatron7]

I was thinking about this today as I consumed my second 1/8th tsp of fermented pickle juice from the top of the bottle. I'm experiencing good things with the very small dose of fermented juice I'm consuming.

I got to thinking, if all our foods were wild, wouldn't all our foods be covered in completely aerobic bacteria? Fruits, vegetables, nuts, meats, etc would never be isolated from air. Fruits would be growing on trees. Carcasses would be just lying out in the open. All collecting bacteria.

I'm thinking the optimal ferment would be just consuming the food that would have "air using" bacteria. For example the pickle at the top of a jar of fermented pickles, or the juice at the top. As the picture shows, those bacteria go to the surface to "breath." To mimic how the bacteria in our foods would've been pre-modernization, wouldn't this make sense?

I also read on wikipedia - "Yeast is an example of a facultative anaerobe, which can develop in the presence of oxygen but does not require it.:" Considering yeast is typically a problem, and it thrives in an environment without oxygen. I imagine consuming oxygen using bacteria would help.

Does anyone have more info on this, or know of somewhere to look? For example, are there more pathogenic anaerobic strains, and beneficial aerobic strains?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerobic_organism

[eveheart]

I hesitate to reply because I do not know the microscopic science of vegetable fermentation. However, I ferment vegetables all the time, so I thought I'd mention that oxygen is typically excluded from the fermentation jar with some sort of device - I use a water barrier so that the fermentation bubbles escape but oxygen doesn't enter. I rig it up myself, but the principle is the same as a fermentation lock that you can buy at winemaking supply stores. Other ferments, such as high meat, kefir, and kombucha, are set up with the inclusion of air. The only obvious difference is that salt is used in my kind of fermentation, but that might not be the reason for the difference.

[PaleoPhil]

Does anyone have more info on this, or know of somewhere to look? For example, are there more pathogenic anaerobic strains, and beneficial aerobic strains?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerobic_organism

It was discussed here:

http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/journals/paleophil's-journal/msg32444/#msg32444

http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/journals/ioanna's-journal/msg35849/#msg35849

http://forum.dirtycarnivore.com/index.php/topic,299.msg8856.html#msg8856

http://forum.dirtycarnivore.com/index.php/topic,1818.msg96183.html#msg96183

[LePatron7]

Eveheart, I'm making fermented pickles using sea salt, mini cucumbers, dill and distilled water. As well as sauerkraut using green cabbage, sea salt, and distilled water. I have them in mason jars without lids in a mini cooler outside. So mine are exposed to plenty of air, especially since I air them daily. I've made sauerkraut and pickles before, but with the lid on (however not tightly).

Thanks PaleoPhil.

[LePatron7]

"There are two types of bacteria - aerobic and anaerobic. Aerobic bacteria, are healthful bacteria, and they make up the natural bacteria flora of the body. Without aerobic bacteria, we could not survive, anaerobic bacteria, on the other hand, are harmful to body processes. They cause disease. Oxygen is the only known element that will kill anaerobic bacteria and at the same time stimulate the growth at healthful (aerobic) bacteria." http://www.oxyenergyplus.com/import.php

From - http://forum.dirtycarnivore.com/index.php/topic,299.msg8856.html#msg8856

[eveheart]

Eveheart, I'm making fermented pickles using sea salt, mini cucumbers, dill and distilled water. As well as sauerkraut using green cabbage, sea salt, and distilled water. I have them in mason jars without lids in a mini cooler outside. So mine are exposed to plenty of air, especially since I air them daily. I've made sauerkraut and pickles before, but with the lid on (however not tightly).

If the fermenting produce is submerged in brine, you have excluded the air.

[PaleoPhil]

"There are two types of bacteria - aerobic and anaerobic. Aerobic bacteria, are healthful bacteria, and they make up the natural bacteria flora of the body. Without aerobic bacteria, we could not survive, anaerobic bacteria, on the other hand, are harmful to body processes. They cause disease. Oxygen is the only known element that will kill anaerobic bacteria and at the same time stimulate the growth at healthful (aerobic) bacteria." http://www.oxyenergyplus.com/import.php

From - http://forum.dirtycarnivore.com/index.php/topic,299.msg8856.html#msg8856

I later learned it is more complex than that.

[LePatron7]

If the fermenting produce is submerged in brine, you have excluded the air.

I imagine the top would have aerobic bacteria as the picture depicts. My plan is to start with the juice on top. Just a 1/8th tsp gives me die off. Eventually I'll work my way to the pickles on top, and I'll move pickles on top as I go.