Your view on supplements

[LePatron7]

Hey everyone. I thought I'd make a thread so that newbies on the forum could make an educated decision on whether or not to take supplements based on other RPD'ers experiences.

Here are my experiences. I don't try to get all my nutrients from supplements. But in situations where I can't get the amounts of the vitamins I want from food, I take supplements.

For example I don't (and can't) spend that much time in the sun, so I take a vitamin d3 supplement.

I also need larger than normal doses of niacin, b complex, and vitamin c - so I take those.

I've been learning about iodine detoxing the other halides, so I've been taking Lugol's 2% iodine.

Basically I'm not anti-supplements. If you can get it from food, that's better. But if you need supplements for stuff you can't get from food, I'm all for it.

[cherimoya_kid]

I agree, although I only supplement vitamin D. Occasionally I take some bone meal or healing clay like Terramin, but those are naturally-occurring and not heavily processed.

[joej627]

I think very few supplements are truly needed.  Most can get from food sources.  Best sources?

kelp or seaweed - iodine
liver - b12 and b complex
cod liver oil - vitamin d, omegas (sun is best)
papaya/pineapple - digestive enzymes, vitamin C (papaya is LOADED)
fermented foods - probiotics
raw fats - great for most everything
marrow bones - for joints

Personally, I think magnesium is one of the harder ones to get from food.  Unfortunately, there is more in some of the "non-paleo" foods.  Swiss chard, spinach, greens, and some nuts seem to be the best sources for these.

Other than that, a "whole foods" supplement like Dr. Schulze stuff seems best for broad-spectrum type stuff. 

[svrn]

I agree, although I only supplement vitamin D. Occasionally I take some bone meal or healing clay like Terramin, but those are naturally-occurring and not heavily processed.

Bone emal and terramin clay are foods not supplements. They are found in nature exactly as you consume them.
And no point in taking vitamin d pills when you could just take fermented cod liver oil.

Magnesium is quite plentiful in most shellfish especially scallops and mussels. Lost of plain fish have a good amount of magnesium as well.

PLEASE NAME ONE NUTRIENT THAT CANT BE FOUND IN FOOD.

[LePatron7]

PLEASE NAME ONE NUTRIENT THAT CANT BE FOUND IN FOOD.

This is a post to discuss our views on supplements, you've made your point clear that you're against them. There are no nutrients in supplements that can't be found in food. However I can't get 15-50 mg of iodine from food, nor large doses of other vitamins from food. My view is that in certain instances supplements are beneficial, and having the view that all supplements are harmful is counter intuitive (imo).

I don't advocate taking Vitamin A supplements when you can eat liver, or taking CoQ10 when you can eat heart.

[svrn]

You just need to eat more organs. The american indians used to drive buffalo off the cliffs and then take their organs while leaving the muscle meat for the vultures. Its because thats where all that good stuff is. Especially the niacin you think you need to be taking pills for when you can get much more bioavailable niacin without liver toxicity through organs.

And you may think your getting a lot of iodine through your chemicals but just a fraction of that is bioavailable and utilizable. Youll get much more bioavailable iodine through fish and shellfish and seaweed.

[LePatron7]

You just need to eat more organs. The american indians used to drive buffalo off the cliffs and then take their organs while leaving the muscle meat for the vultures. Its because thats where all that good stuff is. Especially the niacin you think you need to be taking pills for when you can get much more bioavailable niacin without liver toxicity through organs.

Beef liver, 1 oz (likely not grass fed) - http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3468/2

"Niacin - 3.7mg - 18%"

I take 3,000 mg (15,000%) from supplements. So I'd have to eat 50 lbs of liver daily to get that same amount.... Seems a bit unrealistic.

And you may think your getting a lot of iodine through your chemicals but just a fraction of that is bioavailable and utilizable. Youll get much more bioavailable iodine through fish and shellfish and seaweed.

Lugol's iodine is actually mined from crystals, so it's a natural source, just like the "Real Salt" I use.

http://www.bloodrootproducts.com/LugolsIodineSolution5percent_p/564.htm

"The iodine used in our Lugol's solution is derived from mined crystals, not from shellfish or kelp."

Seaweed is illegal on SCD.

http://www.diet.com/g/iodine

"Haddock, 3 oz       104-145 mcg"

So I'd have to eat about 4 lbs of haddock to get what I get from 1 drop of Lugol's, and I typically use around 10 drops daily.

[svrn]

Like I said, only a fraction of those nutrients in the supplement are bioavailable.

The nutrients in raw foods are 100% bioavailable

the bioavailability of supplements varies from each one but they are all very low.  for every non bioavailable nutrient you ingest you will have damage in your body.

For more information on the bioavailability of nutrient and for some insight into why we at this forum eat our foods raw please refer to the newbie section.

and as to your crystal mining I hate to break it to you but while humans are omnivores for the most part this does not include rock eating. Plants eat rocks not humans.

and to seaweed not being scd legal all I can say is lol.

If you think x amount of a certain nutrient in a supplement equals anything close to x amount of said nutrient in raw form i cant really help you except to ask, do you even know why people eat raw food or did you jsut stumble into this completely blindly?

[LePatron7]

Like I said, only a fraction of those nutrients in the supplement are bioavailable.

The nutrients in raw foods are 100% bioavailable

No food is absorbed "100%."

For example eggs.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/drinking-raw-eggs/#axzz2Utyv4sNM

"Here’s the study referenced in that interview. The study showed that egg protein is more digestible (94% versus 55-64%) when heated, probably due to alteration of the protein’s structure and the ability of digestive enzymes to infiltrate peptide bonds."

Thank you for stating your opinion on supplements, it will be useful to other members who are interested on the topic of supplements.

and as to your crystal mining I hate to break it to you but while humans are omnivores for the most part this does not include rock eating. Plants eat rocks not humans.

There have been many documented instances of animals licking salt rocks, and other such things.

In fact, the way they found out about Real Salt was because of deer.

http://www.amazon.com/Real-Salt-Sea-Pouch-26-Ounce/dp/B000BD0SDU

"Native Americans found a mineral-rich salt deposit from an ancient sea when they saw deer eating the soil."

If you think x amount of a certain nutrient in a supplement equals anything close to x amount of said nutrient in raw form i cant really help you except to ask, do you even know why people eat raw food or did you jsut stumble into this completely blindly?

the bioavailability of supplements varies from each one but they are all very low.  for every non bioavailable nutrient you ingest you will have damage in your body.

Raw food = better absorption, enzymes, less toxins, more nutrients, plenty of benefits. I know why I eat raw foods. Feel free to cite studies (or any other supporting evidence) showing poor absorption of nutrients from supplements, why they're toxic, etc. to support your point of view on supplements.

and to seaweed not being scd legal all I can say is lol.

SCD is very well supported by scientific evidence, strenuous research, and lots of anecdotal support from people world wide who have benefited from it.

[cherimoya_kid]

Bone emal and terramin clay are foods not supplements. They are found in nature exactly as you consume them.
And no point in taking vitamin d pills when you could just take fermented cod liver oil.

Magnesium is quite plentiful in most shellfish especially scallops and mussels. Lost of plain fish have a good amount of magnesium as well.

PLEASE NAME ONE NUTRIENT THAT CANT BE FOUND IN FOOD.

Cod liver oil is a supplement.

And I don't take it because the high amount of vitamin A messes me up.

[LePatron7]

Cod liver oil is a supplement.

It could also be viewed as a processed food. It's been extracted from the liver of the fish cod. Just as olive oil is an extraction of the oil from olives.

[svrn]

Cod liver oil is made by letting the cod livers sit in a giant vat and then later collecting the oil from the bottom. Not too much different than the cream rising to the top of milk.

So if you want to call fclo a supplement youll have to call cream a supplement as well.

and who said anything about something being 100% absorbed? Please stop putting words in my mouth. Just because something is completely bioavailable doesnt mean it will be completely absorbed. Either way you pointing to that study shows jsut how stupid studies are because I vomit when I eat cooked eggs and never with raw so you tell me which is absorbed better?

FUNNY HOW NOW YOU POST STUDIES PROMOTING COOKED EGGS OVER RAW EGGS. (are anyone elses troll senses beginning to tingle here?) You begin veering us off the road of raw food with supplements but how far do you intend to veer people off the road raw foods? At least all the way to switching to cooked eggs over raw as your support for this webpage shows. At what point is the line crossed and somebody identified as infiltrator?

However this makes sense coming out of the same person who promotes supplements because I dont see how a true raw foodist can promote taking supplements for a persons entire life.

You story about the deer sounds great but the same deer would chow down on your genetically modified grain crop if they come across that too so I wouldnt go asking it for health advice.

[svrn]

forgot to post this pertaining to absorbability of supplements. Took me asecond to find, im really getting tired of having to do research for people.

IF YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE USE GOOGLE.

[LePatron7]

Either way you pointing to that study shows jsut how stupid studies are because I vomit when I eat cooked eggs and never with raw so you tell me which is absorbed better?

You may be reacting to the toxins in a cooked food, not necessarily its absorbability.

FUNNY HOW NOW YOU POST STUDIES PROMOTING COOKED EGGS OVER RAW EGGS. (are anyone elses troll senses beginning to tingle here?) You begin veering us off the road of raw food with supplements but how far do you intend to veer people off the road raw foods? At least all the way to switching to cooked eggs over raw as your support for this webpage shows. At what point is the line crossed and somebody identified as infiltrator?[/size]

Where you got that I'm promoting cooked foods, I don't know. I was simply showing that no food is absorbed 100%.

Cod liver oil is made by letting the cod livers sit in a giant vat and then later collecting the oil from the bottom. Not too much different than the cream rising to the top of milk.

Could you provide any info as to how FCLO is processed? I can't seem to find anything on their website.

and who said anything about something being 100% absorbed? Please stop putting words in my mouth. Just because something is completely bioavailable doesnt mean it will be completely absorbed.

What exactly do you mean by bioavailable then? Please elaborate.

However this makes sense coming out of the same person who promotes supplements because I dont see how a true raw foodist can promote taking supplements for a persons entire life.

You can't see how a "true raw foodist" can "promote taking supplements for a persons entire life" because of how close minded you are.

You're 100% sure that supplements are bad, toxic, etc. because... Well for whatever reasons you have. That's your frame, your point of view. Not everyone sees it like that. Your problem is that you can't accept people have varying views from yours. Or that someone could be getting real benefits from a supplement when your view is as such.

forgot to post this pertaining to absorbability of supplements. Took me asecond to find, im really getting tired of having to do research for people.

IF YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE USE GOOGLE.

I'm not advocating that we can't use google. But if you want your point of view to be considered citing evidence for your claims will help you seem credible.

Also, I'd like to see evidence (if you care to do the research for us.. lol) that all vitamins and mineral supplements are completely different from those same vitamins and minerals found in nature. Ie. show me that niacin in my supplement is different from the niacin in liver (besides not being found in a whole food). In other words, that it is toxic. Something supporting the opinion you share with AV.

[svrn]

whatever man, your a waste of time. Iv already said everything iv needed to say and seen everything iv needed to see.

You want to incrementally lead people away from raw foods through your "open mindedness" the same technique always used to get people to accept ridiculous things. Now its supplements next its cooked eggs are more absorbable then youll be talking about the lycopene in tomatoes and how we should be open minded and cook tomatoes because we need the lycopene we cant get in raw form.

Just know iv got my eye on you. You are treading on thin ice here with your anti raw sentiments. If you continue to sneak in pro cooked food propaganda under various guises you will likely be banned.

[svrn]

"Also, I'd like to see evidence (if you care to do the research for" us.. lol) that all vitamins and mineral supplements are completely different from those same vitamins and minerals found in nature. Ie. show me that niacin in my supplement is different from the niacin in liver (besides not being found in a whole food). In other words, that it is toxic. Something supporting the opinion you share with AV."

you are going against everything this board stands for by forcing me to prove the most basic of points in the raw food philosophy, that nutrients are delicate and must be kept in their raw state, below 96 degrees (up to 104 in some circles). You are going against what all but the most open mindedness obsessed people on this forum believe and are trying to make us question the most basic of tenets in this system of thought. I am no longer playing your game.

You behave just as the trolls of the past have, trying so hard to make us think you are genuinely one of us only to sneak anti raw sentiments here and there and make us question the concept of raw foods.

I see who you are infiltrator, dont you worry about that.  I see your goal is to sneakily undermine  raw foods like so many trolls have attempted do on this forum in years gone by (hasnt been a problem for a little while but we should expect more of this as the popularity of raw animal foods rises)

[LePatron7]

You want to incrementally lead people away from raw foods through your "open mindedness" the same technique always used to get people to accept ridiculous things. Now its supplements next its cooked eggs are more absorbable then youll be talking about the lycopene in tomatoes and how we should be open minded and cook tomatoes because we need the lycopene we cant get in raw form.

Actually... Lol I think tomatoes are great for lycopene. But I highly prefer sun dried tomatoes. In fact, I used (home made) sun dried tomatoes on my raw ketchup, which had no cooked ingredients. I cut up tomatoes and placed them on a plate and on my dash board in hot weather for 3-4 days. It came out delish!

Just know iv got my eye on you. You are treading on thin ice here with your anti raw sentiments. If you continue to sneak in pro cooked food propaganda under various guises you will likely be banned.

Good to know. Troll has got his eye on me... Lol. I'm sure I'll get banned for promoting things that a lot of other moderators support the use of.

"Also, I'd like to see evidence (if you care to do the research for" us.. lol) that all vitamins and mineral supplements are completely different from those same vitamins and minerals found in nature. Ie. show me that niacin in my supplement is different from the niacin in liver (besides not being found in a whole food). In other words, that it is toxic. Something supporting the opinion you share with AV."

you are going against everything this board stands for by forcing me to prove the most basic of points in the raw food philosophy, that nutrients are delicate and must be kept in their raw state, below 96 degrees (up to 104 in some circles). You are going against what all but the most open mindedness obsessed people on this forum believe and are trying to make us question the most basic of tenets in this system of thought. I am no longer playing your game.

So you're basically saying, you're not going to give any evidence to support your claims?

I think I've seen elsewhere on the forum that certain nutrients are different in supplement form (ie. vitamin c).

You behave just as the trolls of the past have, trying so hard to make us think you are genuinely one of us only to sneak anti raw sentiments here and there and make us question the concept of raw foods.

You caught me! How sneaky of me to promote a raw diet with supplements if necessary. Trying to get you guys to question the benefits of raw foods.. By promoting a raw diet, with supplements if necessary... Wait.. I'm promoting a raw diet...

Troll could you elaborate as to how I'm undermining a RAF diet?

I see who you are infiltrator, dont you worry about that.

Yes, the infiltrator... The guy who eats 100% raw diet. Uses fluoride free tooth paste. A distiller for pure water. A shower head that removes impurities.

But just so happens to want to use every avenue available for healing and not limit himself by some guru's unfounded, undocumented claims. Maybe eventually you'll want to discuss how freezing food shouldn't be allowed to be on the forum. Are there any other things AV says you shouldn't do that you think shouldn't be discussed on the forum?

Again, to make it clear. This thread is not the debate over whether supplements are right or wrong. But simply whether you support them, or whether you don't support them. And preferably that you give reasons for your stance, as well as evidence to support it for other users who want to make an educated decision.

Hey everyone. I thought I'd make a thread so that newbies on the forum could make an educated decision on whether or not to take supplements based on other RPD'ers experiences.

You made it clear what your stance is 7 posts ago (however without providing any support [studies, anecdotal evidence, etc).

[svrn]

Heres a post from an infiltrator we caught years ago called jazzisgood

http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/hot-topics/ehow-how-to-identify-%28and-ostracize%29-harley-johnstone-on-rawpaleoforum/msg32609/#msg32609

Not to mention, why would I drive Aajonus to Ft. Lauderdale International Airport tomorrow from my personal consultation appointment in Delray if I were Harley Johnstone (DurianRider) or any other raw vegan troll.  But then again, didn't harley drive aaj to the airport in brisbane?    Oh...... Now I see where you came up with it. Makes perfect sense. 

sounds exactly like

Yes, the infiltrator... The guy who eats 100% raw diet. Uses fluoride free tooth paste. A distiller for pure water. A shower head that removes impurities

...

The way an infiltrator would undermine the integrity of the forum is by pretending to be just like us while picking a few things to try to convince us to deviate from the raw paleo diet (taking supplements for ones entire life). An infiltrator would obviously be unsuccessful trying to immediately get everyone to start eating cooked food so you have start small and work your towards that incrementally in order to most effectivly undermine the raw paleo philosophy, this is what many trolls here have done before you.

You seem to be getting awfully ahead of yourself though with your cooked eggs are twice as absorbable as raw eggs garbage.

You also promote the infallibilty of studies and "Expert opinion" when everyone on this forum knows that 99.9% of studies are pro cooked meat and "prove" their findings as well. If we all believed in the infallibility of studies (something paid for by people with big money to say whatever they want for it to say) then we ouldnt be eating predeominantly raw meat and fat now would we?

[LePatron7]

Heres a post from an infiltrator we caught years ago called jazzisgood

http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/hot-topics/ehow-how-to-identify-%28and-ostracize%29-harley-johnstone-on-rawpaleoforum/msg32609/#msg32609

I'm not sure if you even read that post at all... But 1-8 don't apply to me. If you think they do, feel free to elaborate. Also it appears that "jazzisgood" is pointing out the various ways to spot a vegan trolling on the forum. He doesn't seem to be posting cooked food or vegan propaganda.

Edit: After further reviewing his posts, perhaps he was a troll. However feel free to point out the ways our conversation is similar. Actually, his first post was hilarious. To think that vegan trolls would post stuff like that is hysterical.

Not to mention, why would I drive Aajonus to Ft. Lauderdale International Airport tomorrow from my personal consultation appointment in Delray if I were Harley Johnstone (DurianRider) or any other raw vegan troll.  But then again, didn't harley drive aaj to the airport in brisbane?    Oh...... Now I see where you came up with it. Makes perfect sense. 

Actually, I'm not sure where you got the idea that I was calling you a vegan troll.

The way an infiltrator would undermine the integrity of the forum is by pretending to be just like us while picking a few things to try to convince us to deviate from the raw paleo diet (taking supplements for ones entire life). An infiltrator would obviously be unsuccessful trying to immediately get everyone to start eating cooked food so you have start small and work your towards that incrementally in order to most effectivly undermine the raw paleo philosophy, this is what many trolls here have done before you.

So, because I'm promoting a raw diet w/ supplements I'm eventually going to try to convince people that... A cooked diet is better than a raw one? Not sure where you're going with this Troll, I've already elaborated that I eat a raw diet (raw beef, raw fat, high meat).

You seem to be getting awfully ahead of yourself though with your cooked eggs are twice as absorbable as raw eggs garbage.

Maybe you missed it, but I already clarified for your understanding that I was showing no food is 100% absorbed. I'm still waiting for your response as to what you mean by absorb vs. bioavailable.

You also promote the infallibilty of studies and "Expert opinion" when everyone on this forum knows that 99.9% of studies are pro cooked meat and "prove" their findings as well. If we all believed in the infallibility of studies (something paid for by people with big money to say whatever they want for it to say) then we ouldnt be eating predeominantly raw meat and fat now would we?

I'm not sure where you got that everyone on the forum is against studies.

But the raw paleo diet website (not forum) clearly has MANY studies referenced in support of a raw diet.

http://www.rawpaleodiet.com/articles/dangers-of-cooked-foods-an-extensive-collection-of-on-and-offsite-articles/

http://www.rawpaleodiet.com/articles/dairy-food-articles/

Excuse me for wanting 1) clearly explained meanings behind what you mean when you say things like liver toxic, and bioavailable, and 2) evidence supporting your claims, not AV's unfounded claims.

[cherimoya_kid]

 Both of you, knock it off.  Take it to PM if you must keep arguing.  Facts stopped getting presented a long while ago. Now it's just namecalling.

[van]

why don't you guys do in on the phone, as in,  get each others number, pick up the phone and have a discussion.  Maybe you might find out that you're both more alike than you think and actually enjoy each other.  Plus you'd free up this thread  from all the arguing going back and forth.  You want to talk about what destroys a forum quicker than anything....

[svrn]

Iv been done arguing. Iv already pointed out all the signs of an infiltrator, nothing more needs to be done.

Hopefully the mods have an eye on this guy because hes acting just like the infiltrators we had here years ago.

And in case you didnt realize I was addressing all of his points before I figured out hes a time wasting infiltrator. Now Im not going to waste my time anymore.

Now maybe someone will answer my question. Since william got banned for pushing centrifuged (not even cooked) tallow where do we draw the line? Is promoting cooked eggs and supplements for life not worse than centrifuged tallow? Is a warning not in order?

Please someone answer we do we draw the line in protecting the integrity of this forum? In case you havent noticed this forum comes very close to the top on many google searches that dont include anything about raw meat. We have a responsibility upkeep the integrity of this board and make sure we are promoting health not death.

So I ask you, where do we draw the line?

Or maybe nobody will answer because everyone here so obsessed with being nice. I wonder who William pissed off where promoting death foods got him banned because apparently just promoting death foods in and of itself is no longer enough.

[svrn]

decided to take one second to look into this scd diet nonsense and i dont know whether I shoulld laugh or cry.....

first page I look at and I see aspartame is legal and aloe vera is illegal....

i hope after considering this point that I found in one second ( I can find more if youd like) you no longer disgrace our forum with this twisted philosophy which you strictly adhere to.

[cherimoya_kid]

Take it to PM if you want to keep arguing, Troll. 

[svrn]

Im not trying to argue im just trying to bring this to the attention of some mods.

People should know that our forum is being used to promote anti raw philosophies.