Your view on supplements

[van]

I think you'll find you're the only one that feels that way.  Just let it go.   And tell us what's working for you instead.   thanks

[LePatron7]

Both of you, knock it off.  Take it to PM if you must keep arguing.  Facts stopped getting presented a long while ago. Now it's just namecalling.

Sorry.

[svrn]

Nobody can answer me though still.

If william was banned for promoting centrifuged tallow, where do we draw the line?
Are cooked eggs not worse than centrifuged beef fat? Are supplements for the rest of ones life not worse?

Maybe people have reconsidered that we should be more lenient in what people promote and allow these things. In that case Williams ban should be lifted if we are to be consistent.

[jessica]

Nobody can answer me though still.

uuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......its called a chill pill.

[Inger]

I think, everything in context!

There are situations where a supplement can practically save your life, like B12 shots and stuff. People are so broken today and that is why it might be necessary to do some "unnatural" stuff at times. But to choose supps over food sources when decent health is not clever at all me thinks. Nature gives it to us all, if we just want to take it. In a way we were ment to get it, and it is a big difference.

So I really do not get the "fight" here..lol. To me there is nothing like "supps are always bad" or "supps are always good".

[eveheart]

I did straight RPD for over a year before I started looking at blood tests and supplements. I do very well with RPD alone, all things considered, but I like to think that I am doing all I can possibly do to heal past damage.

One temptation I avoid is reading supplement information and then self-diagnosing from the symptoms that are listed. As you may notice, everything is listed. That's not dishonesty, either - poor nutrition can manifest itself in many ways.

[svrn]

I never said supplements are inherently bad.
I only sid that whats bad is to rely on them for the rest of ones life. Doing that is dangerous and insane.

[svrn]

uuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......its called a chill pill.

tell william to take a chill pill after being banned for promoting centrifuged fat while this guy goes around promoting supplements for the rest of your life and cooked eggs as more absorbable than raw eggs which nobody but me even bats an eyelash at.

We must either warn boss for promoting these things on here or lift williams ban because what william was promoting is much closer to the raw food philosophy than supplements for ones entire life or cooked eggs.

[cherimoya_kid]

tell william to take a chill pill after being banned for promoting centrifuged fat while this guy goes around promoting supplements for the rest of your life and cooked eggs as more absorbable than raw eggs which nobody but me even bats an eyelash at.

We must either warn boss for promoting these things on here or lift williams ban because what william was promoting is much closer to the raw food philosophy than supplements for ones entire life or cooked eggs.

William promoted rendered/heated fat, not centrifuged fat.

[goodsamaritan]

I think, everything in context!

There are situations where a supplement can practically save your life, like B12 shots and stuff. People are so broken today and that is why it might be necessary to do some "unnatural" stuff at times. But to choose supps over food sources when decent health is not clever at all me thinks. Nature gives it to us all, if we just want to take it. In a way we were ment to get it, and it is a big difference.

So I really do not get the "fight" here..lol. To me there is nothing like "supps are always bad" or "supps are always good".

Yes yes, in the world of healing, supplements can be life savers.

When my boy's intestines were off line, we relied on nutritional injections while his intestines were healing on raw duck eggs and diluted orange juice for something like a month.

[svrn]

http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/carnivorous-zero-carb-approach/how-to-eat-raw-steak/msg107917/#msg107917

theres one of the threads where discusses centrifuging.

so now that Iv proved this point to you are we going forward by warning boss or lifting williams ban.

Or did you have me dig up this thread just to waste my time knowing that it wouldnt change your mind about anything once I proved you that he did promote centrifuged meat?

[cherimoya_kid]

http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/carnivorous-zero-carb-approach/how-to-eat-raw-steak/msg107917/#msg107917

theres one of the threads where discusses centrifuging.

so now that Iv proved this point to you are we going forward by warning boss or lifting williams ban.

Or did you have me dig up this thread just to waste my time knowing that it wouldnt change your mind about anything once I proved you that he did promote centrifuged meat?

William himself eats and promotes cooked tallow, NOT centrifuged tallow. This is the only time he ever mentions centrifuged tallow, and he certainly doesn't make it or eat it, or promote it beyond this one mention. 

If all his posts had been about the centrifuging of fat, instead of the cooking of fat, I would not have supported banning him.  As it is, I like William, and I really wish we could have found a way to allow him to stay as a member.  All the mods supported his banning, though. We were unanimous.  If you have a problem with that, maybe this isn't the best place for you to post.  Maybe you could start your own forum.

[jessica]

tell william to take a chill pill after being banned for promoting centrifuged fat while this guy goes around promoting supplements for the rest of your life and cooked eggs as more absorbable than raw eggs which nobody but me even bats an eyelash at.

We must either warn boss for promoting these things on here or lift williams ban because what william was promoting is much closer to the raw food philosophy than supplements for ones entire life or cooked eggs.

I doubt anyones whole paradigm is threatened by one opinion on a message board, if so, that person has a whole lot more than diet to evaluate, like  how and by whom their lives are influenced and directed. 

[LePatron7]

William himself eats and promotes cooked tallow, NOT centrifuged tallow. This is the only time he ever mentions centrifuged tallow, and he certainly doesn't make it or eat it, or promote it beyond this one mention.

Right I think at some point he was even defending the fat used at McDonald's since it was tallow. Claiming every cell in the body needs it..

[LePatron7]

I did straight RPD for over a year before I started looking at blood tests and supplements. I do very well with RPD alone, all things considered, but I like to think that I am doing all I can possibly do to heal past damage.

I definitely agree with that statement. I'd like to get testing done too. What are some things you requested your doctor check for? I generally get a routine physical, but I know that doesn't cover vitamins, minerals, fatty acids, etc.

Did the tests reveal anything/lead to you making any changes?

[svrn]

I doubt anyones whole paradigm is threatened by one opinion on a message board, if so, that person has a whole lot more than diet to evaluate, like  how and by whom their lives are influenced and directed.

I agree, and in that case williams ban should lifted since he gave a lot of good advice besides the tallow. WE need to be equal in how we treat everybody. Certainly we can agree that cooked eggs are at least as bad as tallow.

I dont think I really have a problem anyway unless boss promotes cooked food again. Ill give him the benefit of the doubt for that one cooked egg posting but hopefully it ends there.

[cherimoya_kid]

I agree, and in that case williams ban should lifted since he gave a lot of good advice besides the tallow. WE need to be equal in how we treat everybody. Certainly we can agree that cooked eggs are at least as bad as tallow.

I dont think I really have a problem anyway unless boss promotes cooked food again. Ill give him the benefit of the doubt for that one cooked egg posting but hopefully it ends there.

If you don't like how we moderate, you can start your own forum, or find another one that fits your views better, maybe.

On the William issue, we were completely unanimous. William simply would not let up. He made HUNDREDS of posts promoting cooked tallow. When asked to stop, he called me and tylerdurden "trolls".  Yes, I'm a troll.  I've banned probably 500 spammers and trolls from this forum over the last 4 years, and given thoughtful advice to dozens of honest posters, but I'm a troll.

Consider this your first formal warning. Think about which moderator you're pushing this issue with, before you decide what to do about this warning. 

[svrn]

So your warning me after I already said I dropped the issue unless Boss promotes cooked food again?

I hope your feeling powerful now.

[eveheart]

I definitely agree with that statement. I'd like to get testing done too. What are some things you requested your doctor check for? I generally get a routine physical, but I know that doesn't cover vitamins, minerals, fatty acids, etc.

Did the tests reveal anything/lead to you making any changes?

My health-plan doctor did a routine panel (tests for functioning of all major organs, blood counts, etc.), then I took those results to a naturopath, along with my health history and concerns, and ordered some more tests, in my case, heavy metals, auto-immune antibodies, various nutrient levels (like Vit. D, iodine, magnesium). Putting all the tests together, the naturopath made some suggestions - not prescriptions, everything was worded very carefully.

As far as I'm concerned, this is guided trial and error, so my experience counts for a lot. This is better than my health plan doctor, who does everything by the book, even if it doesn't help me much. Another thing my health plan doctor does is prescribe a pill and tell me that I'll be taking it for the rest of my life. Maybe she's right, but that's no reason to avoid improvement.

I don't journal about my experiments here because I'm just trying stuff out. Maybe in two or five years I will know what worked and what didn't. For sure, thought, RPD has given me a proven improvement in my health, and I am sure that I wouldn't even be considering other measures without the improvements I've gotten with RPD alone.

[cherimoya_kid]

So your warning me after I already said I dropped the issue unless Boss promotes cooked food again?

I hope your feeling powerful now.

Seriously?

[svrn]

this is what I said right before your posting.

"I dont think I really have a problem anyway unless boss promotes cooked food again. Ill give him the benefit of the doubt for that one cooked egg posting but hopefully it ends there."

so after that what is your goal in warning me? To further cement the point or to just make yourself feel powerful. I personally can see no point in your warning me because the result you would have wanted to achieve with your warning was already a reality before you warned me. I already said im not discussing it again unless he promotes cooked food again.

[cherimoya_kid]

I already said im not discussing it again unless he promotes cooked food again.

Beautiful. Let's keep it that way, please.

[svrn]

agreed.

[LePatron7]

Now that we've gotten back on track after that detour. Other members feel free to post your experience with supplements.

[LePatron7]

I decided to do some researching on synthetic vs. natural vitamins to see if I should cut out the vitamin c. As I've heard that natural vitamin c and food vitamin c are different. The sources I've found say that chemically speaking, the vitamins are identical in whole foods as they are in foods - EXCEPT they don't come with other things naturally present in the food. Like enzymes, for vitamin c bioflavanoids, etc. Also that you have to balance the vitamins with other nutrients because in food they'd typically come together.

I found this website particularly helpful - http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminC/vitCform.html

"Natural and synthetic L-ascorbic acid are chemically identical, and there are no known differences in their biological activity. The possibility that the bioavailability of L-ascorbic acid from natural sources might differ from that of synthetic ascorbic acid was investigated in at least two human studies, and no clinically significant differences were observed. A study of 12 males (six smokers and six nonsmokers) found the bioavailability of synthetic ascorbic acid (powder administered in water) to be slightly superior to that of orange juice, based on blood levels of ascorbic acid, and not different based on ascorbic acid in leukocytes (white blood cells) (1). A study in 68 male nonsmokers found that ascorbic acid consumed in cooked broccoli, orange juice, orange slices, and as synthetic ascorbic acid tablets are equally bioavailable, as measured by plasma ascorbic acid levels (2, 3)."

This site also had some helpful info - http://www.doctoryourself.com/synthetic.html

While seeking info from the opposition, those saying supplements are bad, I found info without references. For example from this site.

http://www.naturalnews.com/032058_synthetic_vitamins_supplements.html

"Light passing through a natural vitamin always bends to the right due to its molecular rotation. This is a (d) configuration for dexorotary. Synthetic vitamins behave differently. That same ray of light splits into two parts when passing through-- one part bending to the right (d for dexorotary), the other to the left (l for levorotary)."

Upon google searching - light passing synthetic vitamins - I found many other sites claiming similar things, none of which had references to where they found that info.

http://www.home-remedies-for-you.com/vitamins/natural-vitamin/synthetic.html

http://www.evenbetternow.com/Natural_Vitamins_Supplements_Minerals.php

So I don't know if it was from some study or what. Some of those articles also claim liver toxicity, again without references.