Author Topic: dha hungry  (Read 10120 times)

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Offline van

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dha hungry
« on: December 22, 2008, 02:59:11 pm »
  Looking to learn more about dha.  Anyone have any good links and or know of good sources besides fish and brains.  For I may have a source of lamb brains.   Has anyone eaten significant and consistent quantities of brains and felt a difference?  Some literature mentions that some organs have higher amounts, but haven't found out which one.  My guess is early paleo guy wouldn't have let the brains go to waste, like the marrow, that it would have been a regular part of his/her diet.

coconinoz

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Re: dha hungry
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2008, 12:54:40 pm »

cunnane's survival of the fattest is all about dha
it contains several charts & tables
don't have it w/ me at the moment

be aware that cunnane badly needs a good editor
his foremost contribution is his theory of human origins, which he calls a shore based scenario; even though this scenario should be the title of his book, imo, it only gets mentioned for the 1st time in ch 11; also practically half of the pages need a paragraph rewriting or so...

all that said, i find the book really refreshing & inspiring


coconinoz

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Re: dha hungry
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2009, 03:07:21 am »

here's something (posted on jan 1, 09):

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/


Offline TylerDurden

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Re: dha hungry
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2009, 07:21:43 am »
Marrow is a good source, IMO. Current brain/human evolution theory is that humans' brains got larger as a result of eating lots of dha-richbrains and marrow(ie both raw) from scavenged animals killed by other predators such as lions. It's all to do with the expensive tissue hypothesis.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline van

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Re: dha hungry
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2009, 02:41:18 pm »
  thanks Tyler,  I hadn't read that about marrow.  All I keep getting is that 'there are some organs  that have elevated levels'.  But can't find out which these might be.  Hopefully my source for sheep brains will come through and I can report any differences noticed.  So, if you do have a reference for dha in brain or marrow etc., I'd love to read it.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: dha hungry
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2009, 07:06:05 pm »
Seems I was wrong as some websites state that marrow has very low levels of dha, with only brain cited as being high in the stuff.

http://www.thepaleodiet.com/articles/Encephalization%20Final%20PDF.pdf
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

coconinoz

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Re: dha hungry
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2009, 07:57:15 am »

huh!

in its own way, cordain's encephalization agrees w/ the shore based scenario


Offline rafonly

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Re: dha hungry
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2009, 05:17:33 am »

salmon oil by natural factors
made from the heads of wild alaska sokeye salmons
it's neither molecular distilled (heat treated) or fermented (fungidized)

"time & gradient precede existence", me

Offline van

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Re: dha hungry
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2009, 10:03:01 am »
I've actually contacted a manufacturer who claims to have the only 'raw' salmon oil anywhere.  Even it has seen 140-160 F. and gave me a stomach ache when I used it.  I am more and more wondering if Ray Peat knows what he is talking about, and if he does, want to stay away from pufa's.  Have found a source of wild flash frozen salmon eggs from Alaska.  Still debating if I want to venture there for what Peat writes.  He's quite bright, and I think his 'evidence' sounds right?

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: dha hungry
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2009, 06:52:01 pm »
I've actually contacted a manufacturer who claims to have the only 'raw' salmon oil anywhere.  Even it has seen 140-160 F. and gave me a stomach ache when I used it.  I am more and more wondering if Ray Peat knows what he is talking about, and if he does, want to stay away from pufa's.  Have found a source of wild flash frozen salmon eggs from Alaska.  Still debating if I want to venture there for what Peat writes.  He's quite bright, and I think his 'evidence' sounds right?

It's not just pufas which are badly affected by heat but all fats, as the heat creates toxins in a big way.  There's nothing wrong with raw pufas(or raw saturated fats , as such).
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline van

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Re: dha hungry
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2009, 10:23:01 pm »
Peat claims that pufas oxidize in the body, after ingestion.     I also had ordered another salmon oil from Norway that was also cold pressed, and supposedly it was done under body temp.  It was received only two weeks after pressing.  It also affected my stomach, and within weeks in my fridge, changed to a non pleasant taste and flavor very quickly.  This experience also has happened with trying repeatedly Barleans cold pressed flax oil, that I had next day shipped only one day after pressing.  It too goes off within a couple of weeks in the fridge.  Keeps much longer in the freezer.  I don't use that all anymore.  But just to share my experiences how quickly pufas evidence themselves at oxidizing.   But then again,  I think exposed beef back fat, the soft kind, goes off within a couple of weeks in the fridge.  I usually go by my sense of taste and nose.  And in the case of the fish oils, my stomach hurting repeatedly after ingestion was a good enough warning.  And it wasn't like I was gulping it down.  But it was on an empty stomach.  So my stomach could feel just the oil without any 'distraction'.   I noticed you are using the 'Ice Blue Cod liver oil.  I also tried that.  That stuff really burned my throat.  Talked to the owner.  He said that it doesn't oxidize, but ferments in the several months that it takes to process the product.  I seriously doubt that he has a way of preventing oxidation while it's fermenting.  For that product, it appears as though it's a trade off.     That's why I am trying the fish eggs,  because they are 'sealed' with their coating from air, and frozen rather than 'cold pressed' in an air envirorment, and then when defrosted, eaten immediately.     I remember how you commented on the 'good feeling' after taking the cod liver oil.  Maybe it was the DHA present?  Most meat has very little.   Another reason why I have sought out brain.  It's not bad, and I get it a couple of days fresh.   I remember the readings about the inuit creating high meat.  I think they took whole fish and piled them in a hole, covered it and came back to it months later.  Point is they supposedly used the whole fish, covered by it skin and scales, sealed from air, light and oxygen.  Same when they eaten frozen fish  thawed to eat like ice cream.  Whole, frozen, protected from air.    And then while in Norway years back,  they were drying cod everywhere like thy have for centuries.  I tasted that fish. It really tasted oxidized, but could have been the ammonia smell too.  But my body was telling me to stay away from that.   Any thoughts?

William

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Re: dha hungry
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2009, 12:42:58 am »
Peskin claims that DHA is made from parent fats (he says oils because he is selling veggy extracts), and our bodies make all the needed derivatives such as DHA, GLA etc. from the parent fats.
http://www.brianpeskin.com/
He writes that to take ANY of the derivatives is a mistake, causes an overdose. He warns against fish oil, supported by experience of those who take it.

AFAIK  the only reasonable source is fat from grassfed organic animals, which is hard to find.

Offline rafonly

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Re: dha hungry
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2009, 05:38:27 am »

yes,
pufa's in bulk within a bottle will oxidize rapidly once the bottle is open

that's the beauty of the salmon oil i mentioned earlier: it comes in softgels -- i crack them open w/ my teeth & after removing the oil inside a closed mouth discard the capsules
5 min later my eyes feel better -- that's just my own experience, though


re. short chain pufa's:
acc. to cunnane, only 5% of the ingested short chain pufa's (omega 3 in flaxseed etc.) is converted within the body to their longer chain counterparts step by step until, hopefully, reaching the level of producing dha
he adds that dha is practically the only long chain pufa 100% of which must come from food since the brain does not manufacture any
aa (from land meat) is a different case: part of its needed amount comes from food while the brain makes the balance itself


"time & gradient precede existence", me

William

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Re: dha hungry
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2009, 07:36:16 am »
Wonder how people maintained health before fish oil?

Offline van

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Re: dha hungry
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2009, 10:46:36 am »
 I think they ate brains.  Have read journals where they believe that is how we evolved our brains, by eating fat rich sources including dha rich brains, and eyes.  Talk to the old timers.  Most can recount on the farm where they ate brain prepared some how or other.  It wasn't wasted.  Early man's ability to take a tool and open a skull to get the brain, to crack bones and get the marrow.  As an early scavenger, the eyes would have already been eaten before he got 'there'. 
  I am not really willing to eat fish oils in capsules, for I can't imagine one that would have been cold processed if not molecularly distilled, etc.  All highly processed using extremely high heat.  Not for me.   It's interesting to read where Brian reveals in his literature how it's the heating and processing of oils that causes the omega 6's to get a bad rap, not the oils themselves.    I haven't seen Ray write that.

Offline Roselene

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Re: dha hungry
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2009, 10:37:01 pm »
    When I grew up, my Mom served us raw salmon, raw sturgeon, shrimp and raw herring every week and we had other fish once in a while too, boiled, broiled, steamed or stewed in a simple sauce.  We also ate marrow at least once a week from various sources mostly chicken, and she prepared and served us calf brain salad once.  We used the chicken fat as a butter replacement at least once per week.  The marrow was mostly boiled, and the brains may have been sauteed, I don't know.  Is there DHA in egg yolks?  We ate egg almost every morning, quite often soft boiled.  It was rare we had fried food, breading, batter.  My friends had never tried clams that I had and I had never had smoked ham that they were accustomed to.  I gotta be grateful.  Without the word DHA being popular yet, my Mom appeared very aware of it.  She said her mother gave her cod liver oil and that it tasted disgusting.   

Satya

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Re: dha hungry
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2009, 02:34:36 am »
    When I grew up, my Mom served us raw salmon, raw sturgeon, shrimp and raw herring every week and we had other fish once in a while too, boiled, broiled, steamed or stewed in a simple sauce.  We also ate marrow at least once a week from various sources mostly chicken, and she prepared and served us calf brain salad once.  We used the chicken fat as a butter replacement at least once per week.  The marrow was mostly boiled, and the brains may have been sauteed, I don't know.  Is there DHA in egg yolks?  We ate egg almost every morning, quite often soft boiled.  It was rare we had fried food, breading, batter.  My friends had never tried clams that I had and I had never had smoked ham that they were accustomed to.  I gotta be grateful.  Without the word DHA being popular yet, my Mom appeared very aware of it.  She said her mother gave her cod liver oil and that it tasted disgusting.   

What a good Mom, lucky you!

Offline rafonly

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Re: dha hungry
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2009, 05:44:50 am »

i feel really good about the salmon oil i mentioned earlier in this thread

last year i had an email exchange w/ a representative of the natural factors company & she assured me that their salmon oil is not molecular distilled -- she said this distillation is used mostly for cod liver oil {which is made of cooked cod livers anyway}
she also said that their salmon oil is neither fermented {i.e. turned into the prey of fungi} nor heated at any time during the manufacturing process

as if that were not enough, today i discussed this same oil w/ a whole foods staff member from their vitamin dept.
she said that potential fish oil users are increasingly concerned about molecular distillation as they do not want any heated fish oil; for that reason a few companies are already making fish oil products that are not heated & salmon oil from natural factors is 1 of them

she also compared the sealing of a softgel to the making of jelly
when you're making jelly, the more you heat it the more liquid it gets; to solidify jelly you need to keep it at a low temp; that way it will eventually take up the shape of its container
she added that 1 way to tell if a softgel has been heated is to open it up: if it had been heated before the softgel & its content would be mixed at least to some extent
so this is exactly what i do: i open the softgels w/ my teeth; the oil (salmon color) is clearly separated from its capsule (clear, transparent, see through)

the softgels this salmon oil comes in are made of gelatin, glycerin, water -- this blend would also liquidify if heated, i presume
the oil itself contains some vit e (from plants, i figure)

"time & gradient precede existence", me

Offline van

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Re: dha hungry
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2009, 08:49:26 am »
I heard the same story about not being heated until I talked to the manufacturer himself.  He then said not heated included 140F which in relative terms isn't much.  His point, when I mentioned to him about the Norwegian co. that claimed to use no heat what so ever, his comment was that was impossible,  you won't get the oil out of the fish without it or without using chemicals.   I don't know, but my bet is that if you went further than the sales people and to the source, that you would learn more.  We tend to initially believe what we want to hear.    The other factor again, is when the oil was extracted was it done in an oxygen envirorment?  or under vacuum?  If it was, air was mixed into the oil and is still there.  It's the whole thing with oils.   Nature always locks them up in nice little containers.  Then we open them, take what we want, and try to put it on the shelf.  That's again why I like the salmon egg idea.  It aint been messed with, much.  If you do pursue the no heat thing,  and if you do find from the source that the oil was extracted without heat,  I would love to know. 

 

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