Why are people bashing Raw Paleo?

[Wai Kai Zen]

I never noticed any smell from eating cooked meat.

Cooked or raw starches feed candida/yeast and made me stink in the past.
Also, dairy products feed candida/yeast and made me stink in the past.

The acidic nature of cooked meat creates an environment where candida is dying off and this creates alot off smell.
After using some natural herbs with it, the candida dies off and the smell goes away.
Feeling clean like a baby.

So, are u sure its due to just the meat.. or maybe the combination of meat and carbs.. like everyone on a SAD diet seems to take.

[Poncho]

By referring to my own compromised digestion, it's always by hope that people will put two and two together.
I can't digest anything, but somehow I can digest raw meat.
Why doesn't that click in your head?
Cooked meat is horrible for your body, but the body is strong. The cooked food gets it down eventually, without exception.
My body being weaker, the cooked food really gets it down right away.
Raw meat makes everyone better.
My boyfriend lost 40 pounds in a few months eating this way with me.
He is just a normal guy, not dying of illness or anything.
This worked for my mom too.
Cooked paleo works to a certain extent, my aunt is doing that.
It doesn't have the same benefits, at all.
This is seriously undeniable. I've tried very hard to find it false, it's not possible.
You can find doctors, scientists, public figures, and thousands of people that will say it's false.
But real research will tell you the truth.
Always be wary of your teacher's motives.

[jessica]

was your boyfriend overweight to begin with?  i just remember you also posting about how he was constantly hungry after meals.  just curious if he shouldn't tweak his diet so as not to get thing

[Poncho]

was your boyfriend overweight to begin with?  i just remember you also posting about how he was constantly hungry after meals.  just curious if he shouldn't tweak his diet so as not to get thing

Yeah it was all stress weight. He didn't even look like himself anymore, he was pretty miserable.
He was just going through the beginner period that I went through, where I was hungry constantly.
I told him that, but he made me ask you guys because he was paranoid.

[Wai Kai Zen]

By referring to my own compromised digestion, it's always by hope that people will put two and two together.
I can't digest anything, but somehow I can digest raw meat.
Why doesn't that click in your head?
Cooked meat is horrible for your body, but the body is strong. The cooked food gets it down eventually, without exception.
My body being weaker, the cooked food really gets it down right away.
Raw meat makes everyone better.
My boyfriend lost 40 pounds in a few months eating this way with me.
He is just a normal guy, not dying of illness or anything.
This worked for my mom too.
Cooked paleo works to a certain extent, my aunt is doing that.
It doesn't have the same benefits, at all.
This is seriously undeniable. I've tried very hard to find it false, it's not possible.
You can find doctors, scientists, public figures, and thousands of people that will say it's false.
But real research will tell you the truth.
Always be wary of your teacher's motives.

It does not "click in my head", rude girl, because your argumentation and examples are weak.
Your argumentation looks like the fruitarian guru durianrider.
Do you really think that.. YOUR digestion is the strongest argument out there?
If you tell me that you rage after eating cooked meat, well.. I personally dont know anyone who would rage after eating cooked meat.. never heard of it.
The fact that you think its true (after how long of eating this way?) does not mean its true.

Apart from all the above Id like to repeat that I am trying raw meat and I might drop cooked meat completely in the future, but the way you communicate its no wonder people have been bashing raw paleo. Its not the diet per se, its you.

That being said; this is my last reply to you. I wish you good luck on your journey.

[TylerDurden]

I smell  troll.....

[Wai Kai Zen]

I smell  troll.....

Are you referring to me, and if so.. what do you mean by this?

[TylerDurden]

Are you referring to me, and if so.. what do you mean by this?

Quite obviously. Nothing wrong with  being wary re a diet's claims, but personal attacks are not condoned. Ah well, I'll put this  thread in the Hot Topics forum.

[Wai Kai Zen]

Quite obviously. Nothing wrong with  being wary re a diet's claims, but personal attacks are not condoned. Ah well, I'll put this  thread in the Hot Topics forum.

It wasn't meant as an attack. But the way she talks down to people is something I really dislike.
So I just wanted to point out that she isn't God who knows it all, and that her arguments aren't rock solid.
Also, she wants to help people out.. well I just wanted to make a little more clear that people dont even care about your message if your communicating it in a disrespectful way.
I don't mean to make a big issue out of this. So I'm taking myself out of it.

If you think I went too far, I apologize..
 

[LePatron7]

Kaizen is clearly trying to adopt a raw diet.

His benefits from cooked meat are likely from cleaning up his diet. Once figuring out how to eat raw will notice more improvements.

[jessica]

Yeah it was all stress weight. He didn't even look like himself anymore, he was pretty miserable.
He was just going through the beginner period that I went through, where I was hungry constantly.
I told him that, but he made me ask you guys because he was paranoid.

Aha I see.  Yeah there are a lot of younger people that are sooo inflamed.  Like the freshman 15 type shit, it looks pretty uncomfortable and definitely not healthy.  Glad he is past that and you both are feeling healthy.

[jessica]

If you tell me that you rage after eating cooked meat, well.. I personally dont know anyone who would rage after eating cooked meat.. never heard of it.
The fact that you think its true (after how long of eating this way?) does not mean its true.

I get where you are coming from Kaizen, that its all relative.  So put yourself in Poncho's shoes and it is true for her, for now.  I don't know, I feel like there is always some kind of beginners enthusiasm on all diets, were we see results and are convinced this is the universal cure all.  I think you will note most of us here have varied diets, some include something while others exclude the same.  It's all about finding what works for your personally, and that definitely changes as your body heals and adapts.

But I don't understand this sentence I quoted.  Where does she talk about raging? Only  because I experienced it in the past, while eating "raw paleo" but sometimes with grainfed  meat, which eventually made me sick, even raw, and sometimes due to blood sugar caused hormonal issues or use of weird supplements(DHEA, do not take!), but this was like.....4 years ago.  Just curious

[Iguana]

I smell  troll.....

I fail to see why Kaizen felt that Poncho’s post was rude: my limited grasp of English prevents me to see what this fuss is all about. Who would be a troll and why? There seems to be a nasty obsession about trolls on this forum. 

[Wai Kai Zen]

Here let me help you out here

I have very compromised digestion
If I eat cooked meat, I get sick and bloated, I get rage that cannot be tamed, its insane haha
If I eat raw meat, I feel better and better each time.

This is consistent and 100%

If you are a thinker, you'll conclude that the raw meat vs cooked meat concept may have some ground. and therefore deserves some reconsideration on your part.

This is a quote where she talks about raging.

By the way, I understand what you say Jessica.. about beginners enthusiasm. 
I dont mind that at all, but the way of communicating is something I dont get.. no matter if u found the perfect diet or not.

[Wai Kai Zen]

I fail to see why Kaizen felt that Poncho’s post was rude: my limited grasp of English prevents me to see what this fuss is all about. Who would be a troll and why? There seems to be an nasty obsession about trolls on this forum.

Talking about.. why it doesnt "click in my head".. is considered pretty rude, atleast to me. Its a demeaning way of talking to someone.
Its not just what she said to me, but the whole attitude to someone who disagrees with her.. like the other person is stupid and people should listen to her because she got the answer.

I dont understand why I am a troll either. Im not against raw meat at all, but Im asking questions.. Im critical towards anything, but willing to try new things at the same time.

[Iguana]

Talking about.. why it doesnt "click in my head".. is considered pretty rude, atleast to me. Its a demeaning way of talking to someone.

OK, I had had never seen or heard this expression, so I had no idea.

Jessica said something I also witnessed several times (it also happened to myself, and not only with diet): our understandable enthusiasm when we discover something new and remarkable. Good you're are immune to that tendency! And you're no troll, I can certify that! 

[jessica]

This is a quote where she talks about raging.

By the way, I understand what you say Jessica.. about beginners enthusiasm. 
I dont mind that at all, but the way of communicating is something I dont get.. no matter if u found the perfect diet or not.

Oh I see. I guess she was talking about non raw paleo causing a bloated rage.

I totally understand how you viewed her statements too. 

Poncho can you see how this is pretty limited? 

There are many people who have weak digestion here as well, where raw meats doesn't just work right away, many have low HCL or other digestive disorders that need healing with high meats, clearing of liver or gallbladder issues, rebalancing of gut issues, blood sugar issues, hormonal. This is in no way to say what you have overcome isnt amazing, Poncho, just to say consider yourself very lucky you have a "%100 success rate".

Its definitely good to take everyone "advice" here just as a sharing of personal anecdotes, nothing more, and focus on what truly works for you.  Which, as I said before, will probably change and evolve.  Healing is generally an erratic process, slow, big leaps and bounds, some stabilizing set backs due to availability of foods or whatever and repeat.

[Wai Kai Zen]

OK, I had had never seen or heard this expression, so I had no idea.

Jessica said something I also witnessed several times (it also happened to myself, and not only with diet): our understandable enthusiasm when we discover something new and remarkable. Good you're are immune to that tendency! And you're no troll, I can certify that! 

Haha thanks .
I do understand the enthusiasm aswell. I have had it on raw veganism, fruitarianism, cooked paleo and even on parts of raw paleo. Ive been falling into that trap way too often to realize that I need to keep my options open. I understand that chances are that I might be wrong on some things, even if they made me feel good.

This is why I ask alot of questions.. because I am enthusiastic about what some parts of raw paleo have offered me, but Im also aware that things  might be much more complex then I think they are.

I think this is the first forum Ive been on where I can honestly express myself and play "advocate of the devil" in order to truly learn from you people and get to know all the ins and outs.

 

[Wai Kai Zen]

Oh I see. I guess she was talking about non raw paleo causing a bloated rage.

I totally understand how you viewed her statements too.  Poncho can you see how this is pretty limited?  there are many people who have weak digestion here as well, were raw meats doesn't just work right away, many have low HCL or other digestive disorders that need healing with fermented meats, clearing of liver or gallbladder issues, etcetcetc.  consider yourself very lucky you have a %100 success rate

Its definitely good to take everyone "advice" here just as a sharing of personal anecdotes, nothing more, and focus on what truly works for you.  which, like I said, will probably change and evolve, its generally an erratic process, slow, big leaps and bounds, some stabilizing set backs due to availability of foods or whatever and repeat.

I do appreciate your understanding Jessica. And the way you view the process is something I definetly agree on.
I also appreciate all of you active members for your input and most of all, honesty. Even the fact that everyone does things a little bit different is a good thing. Admitting to taking supplements or medicine is also something thats brave to do.

By the way, on youtube there is a video where she is crying because she is not getting medical marijuana. Im sorry, but taking drugs and then say you are feeling perfect on a raw paleo diet takes away alot of the credibility. So 100% succes rate, I dont know about that.

Is there anyone by the way, who does live strictly on raw meats (maybe eggs and veggies with it) and has no need for supplements or medicine? If so, please respond.. Id like to learn more from your experience  !

[Haai]

Is there anyone by the way, who does live strictly on raw meats (maybe eggs and veggies with it) and has no need for supplements or medicine? If so, please respond.. Id like to learn more from your experience  !

I don't take supplements or medicine. However, in winters I have taken a vit D supplement, but I'm hoping that I won't need to this following winter.

[Wai Kai Zen]

I don't take supplements or medicine. However, in winters I have taken a vit D supplement, but I'm hoping that I won't need to this following winter.

Thanks for responding, Haai .
1. So, what does your diet look like? And if you want, could you describe it as precise as possible?
2. Also, in what way did raw paleo help you?
3. And, do you feel as healthy as humanly possible, or do you think there is something to be gained still?

These questions are also meant for others who follow raw paleo without any supplements or medicine for some time now .

[TylerDurden]

I fail to see why Kaizen felt that Poncho’s post was rude: my limited grasp of English prevents me to see what this fuss is all about. Who would be a troll and why? There seems to be a nasty obsession about trolls on this forum. 

There was nothing rude whatsoever in Poncho's post, which was why I thought that Kaizen was being deliberately hypocritical in this regard. As for Kaizen being thought of as a troll, he was being a bit too confrontational which was a bad sign. However, we'll see....

[Wai Kai Zen]

There was nothing rude whatsoever in Poncho's post, which was why I thought that Kaizen was being deliberately hypocritical in this regard. As for Kaizen being thought of as a troll, he was being a bit too confrontational which was a bad sign. However, we'll see....

Im looking for truth about health.. Im asking hard questions perhaps. I think its dangerous for you, me or anyone else to say that their diet is perfect. Unless u can back it up hardcore with not just numbers, but results aswell. See, Im fairly new to this diet as I will admit, but you and some others are quite experienced. So for me as a newbie to ask questions shouldnt be bad as long as you can answer them with something other than.. "it just works" or "it works for me so it is truth". It seems like I have to be controntational sometimes to get some answers or evidence or results..

Is it wrong for me to ask alot of questions? Is it wrong for me to wanting proof in the lines of bloodwork, healthy physiques, and all this without drugs, supplements or whatever?

Tyler, you obviously stated that Poncho didnt say anything rude, so let me use her way of asking this to you:
 "Why doesnt it click in your head that Im just searching for evidence and in the end, truth?"

[Haai]

Thanks for responding, Haai .
1. So, what does your diet look like? And if you want, could you describe it as precise as possible?
2. Also, in what way did raw paleo help you?
3. And, do you feel as healthy as humanly possible, or do you think there is something to be gained still?

These questions are also meant for others who follow raw paleo without any supplements or medicine for some time now .

1. The past couple of months I've been eating mainly beef muscle meat, heart, liver, kidney, bone marrow and fat trimmings. I've also got some lambs heart in the fridge at the moment. Sometimes I eat minced wild venison. I was eating about 125 to 300 g of berries (raspberries or blueberries) per week. But i've been eating quite a few plums this past week or so, because the plums on the plum tree in my (parent's) garden have just ripened. They are quite an old variety. The plums are like one third of the size of the one's you see in a supermarket. I've also been eating a few dandelion leaves and mint leaves that happen to grow in the garden, but no more than like 10 leaves every three or four days or so. Yesterday I found a load of wild brambles and ate them till I could eat no more. In another couple of months, when there's no more wild fruit I'll be eating 100 percent animals foods till next summer. I eat when I'm hungry and stop eating when I'm full , but on days that I work out I will not eat before working out, or if I do eat beforehand it would be a very small quantity.

2. I no longer have eczema, which prior to starting the Raw Paleo Diet covered pretty much my entire body and made my life hell.

3. Bear in mind that a healthy diet alone will not necessarily counter the detrimental effects of other, unhealthy aspects in one's life, such as air pollution, a sedentary lifestyle, lack of sun exposure, emf exposure, being unearthed etc etc. Like Iguana often says, a Raw Paleo Diet should be considered the norm, not something 'special' that can make miracles happen. People have diverged from the normal diet and started eating an unnatural diet, which is discordant with our evolution, an that is one (of probably several) contributing factor(s) to their ill health. So in answer to your third question, no I do not think I am as healthy as humanly possible, but I do not believe that my diet is the limiting factor. But I really want to get hold of a thyroid gland for some iodine. When I get round to finding a job I might buy thyroid gland from Dr Ron's website, it's combined with liver though, which i don't need, especially at that price.

[Poncho]

Alright Kaizen, you big fool.
Or small, can't be sure from that avatar you've got.
A brain injured girl can do whatever the fuck she wants if it helps her heal.
If it helps make the healing a little less painful, as it takes a painfully long time, even without added pain.
The marijuana video is a real recording of how I was doing at that point in time.
It was for the purpose of showing people what brain injury can be like.
All of my first videos are trying to do that.
Once I noticed that people we're generally incapable of comprehending them, I stopped posting them.
The marijuana was my only help, and I was devastated that a 'doctor' would deny me something so important.
You don't comprehend things, thats why I asked you if it clicked in your head.
I can't believe you have the nerve to judge me. You are an absolute fool.
The rage is another thing that brain injury caused. I was telling you about it, I wasn't asking for anyone's opinion on it.
Fuck everyone in my life thinks that they can just have opinions on my brain, and them be valid.
Seriously, you can't know.
No one here knows what it feels like to look down and see that your knuckles are white because your fists are clenched so hard, to feel the anger coursing through your veins, the tears flowing down your face, the hateful thoughts clouding your mind, all for seemingly no reason at all. That's what would happen when I really fucked up my digestive system.
Now it's not so bad, but I'm still not better.
No, I'm not 100%, and I might never be. No way to know, as far as I know.
I owe the progress I've made to this 'diet'.
Because for the 2.5 years or so before I found it, I was healing but getting sicker and sicker all at once.
You don't know what you're talking about.