Life with a doctor

[Dr. D]

The dangers and misconceptions of ketosis.

I drank two and a little less than 1/2 a little more than 1/4 glasses of wine tonight.  3 hours later I blew a .38 on the breathalyzer. I am not out of my mind drunk. My mom only said my breath smelled a little bit like alcohol, like ketones. My dad didn't notice. I'm only buzzed. Apparently .35 is enough to be hospitalized and that's by serious drunks.

Yes, my breath alcohol is really high. Mostly because with no carbs my body processes alcohol really fast and strongly. However I can't drink as much as my carb days because with no carbs to diffuse the alcohol it makes my breath and likely blood alcohol really high. Dangerously high.

My limit for a long time has been about 3 drinks in the course of a night, taken over a few hours. It's enough for me. I don't enjoy drunk. Just a little buzz. This works well with ketosis as I only need a drink or two to get there.

http://www.breathalyzeralcoholtester.com/alcohol-chart-estimation I weight about 160. Apparently I'm supposed to be dead.

[Iguana]

What made you embark on this "zero carb" craze, my friend? It has nothing to do with paleolithic nutrition. In that era, our ancestors certainly had  absolutely no idea of what carbohydrates are, thus they had no way to exclude them from their diet.

Better totally avoid alcoholic beverages, anyway. Small amounts of alcohol in over-ripe fruits are fine, though.

[Iguana]

The following posts have been moved here:
http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/instinctoanopsology/instinctos-tropical-paradise/msg114031/#msg114031

[Dr. D]

So after following the day-long debate, but not being able to respond, I'll just put my two cents in here.

I live in an area where there is no wild fruit. I'm an avid outdoorsman and have yet to come across anything that remotely resembles fruit in this area, even if I don't know what it is, it's all pretty much grass and trees. So there's two conclusions I can draw: 1- fruit is not abundant in this area so if I were to adapt to it I'd have to eat mostly animals. 2- whether or not it is beneficial, evolution is about change, and the change that needs to occur to survive in an area.

I have many reasons for doing VLC/ZC right now:

-Seasonal changes: it's getting to fall and about the only fruit left is apples and pears. Nothing can be found wild so I choose not to eat domesticated fruit right now.

-Previous health issues are going away being on ZC: my teeth enamel in growing back, they are becoming stronger, acne is clear, all symptoms that showed up immediately upon consuming carbs in any form, including raw local honey. My energy deteriorated with carbs and on zero-carb I feel like a warrior, going for most of the day with no desire to stop and watch tv as I previously wished to. Not to say I'm over-working myself, rather that I'm being productive for my day, with many activities being sit-down (music, reading, conversation, etc.) Also my desire to be social is returning to what it was in high school, when I felt great.

-I come from Scandinavian and Slavic heritage, both cold climates. Who knows how many generations this goes back but let's assume for a moment that within the realm of unprocessed foods one must adapt to his environment quickly or die. To adapt to cold climates one must consume fat and very few carbs; it's all that nature has available and in fact provides an advantage for that person. I notice on my highest fat days I struggle a little in the heat but can drench myself in a cold shower or sit in the car with the AC full blast, feeling cold but it doesn't bother me. In fact, it's almost enjoyable to live at a refrigerated temperature of 50-60 degrees F, or about 14-20 C.

-I have always had a disposition towards meats and fish, again possibly Scandinavian heritage.

-Sweets have been my addiction, struggling to not eat them day in and day out. With ZC, I don't feel that pull anymore and with a few bites of carbs I feel a pull to continue consuming even though I know it's unhealthy. They make me sick so I need a break.

-Sleep is better. When I was young I was always noted as the first to bed and first to rise. Looking back I was just sensitive to the natural cycles of the day and enjoyed following them. From 13 yrs. to just a few months ago of age I have had sleep difficulties that are being sorted out again by being ZC. I am more likely to be in bed by 10 and wake up naturally at 6-7. This is not consistent yet but I am feeling more rested and more energetic overall, which tells me something good is happening.

As stated earlier, I have no intention of living my life in a zero-carb state. It is an experiment I need to conduct to figure out the best carbs for me and how to tolerate them without a loss of energy. If that means I must live in a ketogenic state where most of my energy comes from fat, so be it. If the way I feel now continues (not likely, everything changes) I'll continue what I'm doing. It's the first time in my life I've felt this good.

As far as scientific stuff goes: babies live in a ketogenic state, eating high fat and cholesterol and doing great. The land mostly provides those macronutrients year round, fruit being seasonal except in tropical places. Yes, I know the stuff about instincto's talking about high fruit areas year round. That is not commonplace nor does it align with evolutionary theory or even practicality for where I live. Otherwise I'd be consuming only domesticated fruit and I'm sure the instincto's don't approve of domesticated fruit. Also, if the instinctos truly had their alliesthetic response the same as our ancestors, why do we not hear them laying claim that grazing on bugs is the most instinctual way of hunting for food? Why work hard at killing a deer that's so fast and requires great spear skill when we can eat these lovely maggots crawling all over the tree? I'm 3 months into raw paleo and as I can see myself maybe in the future attempting bugs, I currently have no interest. I'm already deemed weird enough and don't want to lose any more friends over this

I would like to be more wild in my approach with food; hunting more frequently. I can only imagine how yummy a dove or quail or deer or bear is eaten straight from the wild. My nature may be full of bugs but I'll let the lizards eat the bugs and I'll eat the lizards.

[Dr. D]

I am feeling a little sad right now. The prospect of finding a healthy, woman, or in my goals, women, that would be on board with raw paleo, polygyny, and be very beautiful while having an attractive personality seem to shrinking daily as I learn more and more the potential of the human race. Naturally, there must be some give and take. However, I simply don't think I can believe in marriage in the standard sense anymore. It simply doesn't make sense. It seems... harsh and cold in some regards. This concept of love is laughable; we've only married for love in the last 100 years.

In some regards I can be funny, energetic, and the life of any party. Raw paleo has put me on the top of my game, leaving girls usually eyeing me all night and saying they love how funny, exciting, etc. I am. But... I am not attracted to them. Most of the conversation, while based on comedy and is nice to break loose, is simply shallow.

I am in the middle of nowhere. I am not here for myself. I'm here for my parents. The goal is to help them survive another year. Agriculture, ironically enough in a system based upon agriculture, is dying for the middle sized man. There is a movement towards small organic farms. The giants also are buying up the medium sized guys. My family is a medium sized guy. We can either sell or shrink down. The government subsidizes grains and taxes fruits. So backwards. I can't imagine the strife some of the organic grass-fed cattle growers go through. Or maybe it's not that bad. Don't grow fruit. It's a shitty business.

It wouldn't be so bad here if I could find some beautiful women to hang or have sex with. I haven't had sex in 1 year and a half. Talk about being high-strung.

I wish I could find one other person, male, female, attractive, unattractive, doesn't matter at this point, that wants to do raw paleo with me. It's been the best change I've done in my life with the easiest effort and the greatest results. I've never felt this great day to day or looked this good not only in athletic shape but overall complexion. And people comment on it. My friends that know I eat this way think it's interesting, and that it's obviously helped, but have no interest in giving up brownies or bread or donuts, or any other grain/dairy, not even to mention eating meat raw.

Oh well. Sorry to anyone reading if I sound like I'm throwing a pity party. The thing that bothers me the most is feeling alone as I do. Any lack of loneliness involves people that simply want to party. The area is a desert. Maybe you guys have some advice for getting over this sort of issue? Maybe I need to take a weekend trip with some friends to the city and be social and meet 100 new people in 2 days?

[cherimoya_kid]

southern Cali has the highest concentration of RAF-type dieters, especially because of Aajonus' work there.  However, I think you're better off finding someone who already eats fairly healthily, and sloooowly converting her over time.  It took me about 3 years before my wife really started eating more like I do, but she does now.  She backslides some, but she's far healthier than she was when we met.  She had sickened herself with years of anorexia, bulemia, and veganism.  I'm bringing her back, though, one piece of raw tuna at a time. 

[bookittyrun]

meeting 100 of the wrong people in two days may have you feeling even worse!
travelling to the city and being "social" will most likely have you in the same environment you've been striking out at lately...  like a bar.  or club.


c_k may be right...  when your current obligations are met, move on...

[Dr. D]

well, my puppy has parvo. I'm exhausted. Up all night with her puking. Vet gave her anti-inflammatory, anti-nausea, and anti-biotic medications. I don't like anti-biotics because of how they weaken the immune system. But I'm using them short term so she won't catch anything and the second she gets her appetite back she will be eating my high meat to rebuild good bacteria. I'm also using M.M.S (chlorine dioxide) which supposedly has been very helpful to many people. I'm quite hopeful she'll be okay. After 3 doses of MMS today so far she is less lethargic, wagged her tail once for a bit, and is much less spacey. Still no appetite or desire for thirst but she isn't really dehydrated, thankfully.

We are bleaching the whole house. My eyes burn and my head hurts. I'm burnt out and want to take a nap. I had to get away from the bleach smell so I came and wanted to post this. If anybody has taken their dog through parvo and has other good stuff to recommend (herbal for rehydration?) let me hear it.

[jessica]

go for a weekend trip into the woods

[eveheart]

well, my puppy has parvo.... I'm also using M.M.S (chlorine dioxide) which supposedly has been very helpful to many people. I'm quite hopeful she'll be okay. After 3 doses of MMS today so far she is less lethargic, wagged her tail once for a bit, and is much less spacey. Still no appetite or desire for thirst but she isn't really dehydrated, thankfully.

The MMS website has a forum that contains discussions about using MMS for parvo. Not a lot there, but all the ones I found are positive. The site is http://genesis2church.org/. I think you must be a registered member to view the discussions, but maybe not.

[Dr. D]

Yes, those are all the ones I saw and am following that very protocol. 1 drop per hour, moved up to two these last two hours, because of her size (54 lbs). Still no diarrhea so thats good, with an improvement in symptoms every hour. I swear by that stuff, and would highly recommend it to anybody for any sickness. Thanks for the look out Eve.

This all goes to show even a dog fed on a high quality raw meat diet (aside from frozen, she eats like me) is still susceptible to sickness. Very relative to the conversation that was occurring in the other thread on vaccinations.

A camping trip would be wonderful Jess, be my camping buddy? We'll catch some wild steelhead in the methow river and eat it raw and wriggling.

[jessica]

I would D, but I am way further away now, in Southern Oregon, lots of salmon running right now, deer and turkey soon!

I went camping with Ryan/thoth/citrushigh from the MB just a few days ago.  we ate raw meat and had an awesome time.  Just be patient, recognize and follow the path that is out in from of you, even if it seems new and weird and wild and different from any that you have before, you will find other people and friends and women along the way, just be brave and get into some new territory.

[Dr. D]

Long post incoming, sorry but I need help

Update time! My pup is doing great again, parvo passed no problem. By the end of day 1 of MMS treatment she was starting to drink water  little more, day 2 had her nibbling on food with me coaxing her, fresh beef preferred to my high meat, thats okay, by day 3 she was 90% and wanting to play but still a slightly weak appetite, usually she's ravenous but she was slowly taking it down. Overall, very quick recovery and she's doing great now. For those with dogs, I can attest to MMS for parvo, and I truly believe it gave her a strong quick recovery. I used 1 drop per hour, slowly working up to 1 drop per 25 lbs, given every 1.5-2 hours depending on how much was excreted.

Now on to me. I'm frustrated. These past three days I've been feeling very exhausted and eating like a saint the whole time.
Food
Maybe my fat intake was a little low yesterday but by no means not enough to screw me up. I usually have been eating 3/4 to 1 lb of lean meat a day with 1/2 lb. of fat. Yesterday I got a hold of liver and heart (DELICIOUS!) and ate salmon like a usually do on a twice weekly basis, about 6-8 oz. worth. I'm still doing iodine, again, without supplements. Also, I had 6 egg yolks yesterday to try and help.
Sleep
Sleeping 7.5-8 hours each night, though I feel tired when waking up, probably preferring 9 hours but as I keep moving my schedule back, my dad keeps waking me up earlier. I can imagine that contributes some but not to the point to where each day all I can think about it going to sleep. It's been somewhat similar to my pre-RPD and pre-Adderall days, where I have to push REALLY hard to get through the day and I want to sleep a lot.
Exercise
I did increase my exercise slightly, adding in some sprints, and more weight onto the deadlift since I've been practicing form. I exercise only in the morning, fasted and try to wait until afternoon as usual to eat.

Now I'm just flat out frustrated because the only thing I can think is the keto, and I'm nutrient deficient in something, because I'm craving bad bad food really really hard, and my mom just made a bunch of brownies and those are quite kryptonite-like to me. The Liver and heart came at a great time because it was a nice variety. Maybe I need to go hunt some wild birds out here. If it is the keto I feel like I'm screwed because I really only have access to domesticated fruit and the last few times I've had only half an apple or pear (about 10 g worth of carbs) I've felt more tired within 30-45 min, obviously signaling that those fruits aren't the best for me. This usually lasted about 4 hours before I felt good again. Now, I feel that way without.

Maybe it is time to give up the keto but I don't think thats it. Maybe I need the other supplements for the iodine protocol. I no longer notice any difference taking it and not taking it. It used to give me a great energy boost and now nothing, today I had about 50 mg.

I felt so good for a while, now I'm losing it. The plan for tonights dinner is a lot of fat and red meat and a bit of liver. I can hold off another day but I'm really tempted to re-attempt carbs, which sucks because eating sweets makes me more prone to want bad sweets, like that huge plate of brownies. I know I'll feel terrible but my logic is "well, I already feel terrible so fuck it."

Any ideas for regaining my energy... health? Wait it out? Re-try fruit?

[cherimoya_kid]

It sounds like you're adjusting to low carb.  You could either just push through it, which is not necessarily a bad idea, depending on your situation, or you could simultaneously eat a little fruit (like maybe just half an apple, or something) and ALSO increase the fat.  Eating sufficient fat, especially EARLIER in the day, is important for reducing carb carvings.

Eat your fat for breakfast/lunch, and your carbs at dinner.  You can have a little bit of carbs early in the day, but eat the carbs at the end of the meal, like maybe half an apple after a big piece of fatty meat and fish.

[Dr. D]

I don't see how I could be adapting now since I've been near zero Carb for about a month and a half and basically LC since starting RP. I felt like I was doing great about 2 weeks into zero Carb and it got even better from there and then now out of the blue I've just started becoming more tired.

Good suggestion but I can't see adaptation going great for a month then turning sour changing nothing and including organs and the occassional high fiber salad for some veggie nutrients.

[jessica]

id suggest adding seaweeds, like dulse or kelp, to up your minerals, especially potassium.  maybe add some avocados? 

[Dr. D]

I've been eating store bought haas avocados. About 1 every other day, as part of my salad, which consists always of cucumber, avocado, and Bragg's raw ACV, with some Mrs. Dash, sometimes one or two mushrooms. I have no idea where to find the seaweeds. I've been eating a fair bit of salmon, and that has more potassium than bananas, so I doubt it's potassium, though it may be some trace minerals.

[jessica]

are there any natural foods stores where you live?......this is the brand I usually buy, https://www.seaveg.com/shop/ or I look in the bulk herbs section for bulk kelp or dulse.  maybe try a day where you eat one meal with a ton of carbs, like go out and eat as many black berries as you can for lunch, tis that time of year, see if that doesn't give you the most ridiculous anxious energy and also help the craving for carbs go away

[Dr. D]

Sounds like its worth a shot. I wouldn't mind a Carb up day every now and then haha.

[Iguana]

What did I tell you? 

And once again, short term effects can be very different than long term ones, especially in complex systems. Don't follow advices of others, including myself (... except this advice not to follow our advices!): we don't know what your body is doing and what it currently needs.

Only you, and nobody else, can know what and how much of each stuff to eat by following your alimentary instinct instead of intellectual considerations based on our dietary analytic fragmentary and totally partial "knowledge". Forget about carbs, fat, proteins, vitamins, minerals, nutrients, anti-nutrients and place yourself in the position of a wild animal or an hominid of 1 million years ago, ignoring all these scientific data, but nevertheless able to know what and how much to eat.

Of course, Neolithic and modern foods have to be totally excluded. This doesn’t mean that you can’t eat beef, cauliflowers, tomatoes or apples: these are still acceptable foods even if they have been subject to an intensive artificial selection.   

Blackberries would be better than apples, as Jessica suggests, but if it leaves you hungry still, it'd be better to complete your meal with some bananas or other cultivated fruits instead of pastries or junk food.

[van]

Yes, you're going to have to find your way on this one.  I can tell you from my viewpoint, when you start including sugar to energize you (after having lived low or zero carb) it's a slippery slope and easy to grab the easy fix.  Sugar is addicting.   And the body will start to loose it's ability to being an efficient fat burner.    Here's a couple of ideas that may help before you go give up using fat as fuel.  You may be eating too late, hence the waking up feeling not rested.  I do better eating a light meal around seven with enough protein to insure rebuilding and repair over night with enough fat for calories.  Too much, and I've forced myself to use more than I needed.  I then am hungry and eager to eat earlier in the day.  I've found a very small meal early  (fat and protein) fills my immediate protein needs for repair and building.   Aajonus talks about this.  I agree with CK,  your fat levels may be low, and you may be spiking you insulin levels with too much protein, and the associated effects of dealing with over consumption.   lately I like avocados, but find I do best with them when I make a snack of one or more as a mono snack.  I also think seaweeds are important if you're not getting enough sea food.  Dulse is excellent.  Let me know if you want a bulk supplier from Maine/Larch is his name.  I also snack on that.   I like the idea of including some local fruits like berries.  But to start grabbing a high sugar fruit when energy is low for a snack will most likely start a yo-yo with blood sugar.  If I'm going to eat fruit, I do it around the time I exercise, thus using that sugar for the extra energy of exercising.     You might, in not already, gradually increase your levels of exercise to allow the body adapt to increased energy needs.   And finally a month and a half of time is really not that long.  Read what Lex writes about adapting over the years.  I myself find that it gets easier and easier as one adapts to using fat as fuel vs. sugar.     Also salads are nice and can be tasty.  You might try eating salad ingredients singularly to find out what you really like.   Salads can fill you up, take the place of digesting more nutrient and energy giving foods.   Seaweeds out pace land veggies substantially.  Especially if you like them.    Keep sourcing out fats that you like.  It's the same for those who eat sugar, they are constantly finding fruit that they enjoy.   

[jessica]

I only mentioned it because through self experimentation with this irresistible fig tree in the back yard I have found that some evenings, especially this time of year, I am just plain hungry for some carbs...its probably the extra workload, long days and that the weather is pleasant that I am outside A LOT, and....its fruit and berry season. like once or twice a week I get an honest hankering for figs, and I eat the shit out of them, and it might last one night or two, but I am very conscious and can intuit whether or not the hungry feeling is truly that or something else, and fruit is like very last resort.  the rest of the week i have excellent energy with pretty low carb save some green veggies, bell peppers, raw cheese.  so definitely do some self experimentation and let us know!  i really feel like a healthy body will absolutely catabolize that sugar so quickly you will be back in keto in no time, even mine does a much better job at just burning the shit out of occasional fruit sugar and i have like the worst pancreas ever   never resort to baked goods tho!

[Dr. D]

I want to post this dream before I forget. It was very long but ill share the part that I've never had before.


I was at the shore getting ready to go out on a sail boat with a few other people in their own boat, so two boats. We had just come from a channel of calm waters, like a wide smooth river or lake, and waiting at an inlet from the ocean, to try and sail out into the ocean, or at least along the shoreline. As I was setting up the sail they were ready and calling me from their boat. When I tried to look up to them a very bright light all around appeared that I was very sensitive to. It was like the sun and I had to look back down into my boat. The light came from all directions because I tried circling my head the other way from them to look up and again I couldn't even squint without shutting my eyes from the pain of the brightness. They continued to call me wondering "what are you doing? Come on, lets go! " they were obviously oblivious to the light. It confused me that I was the only one so sensitive that I had to slam my eyes closed, or maybe that they didn't even see it.

I slept almost 10 hours last night and am feeling a little better. Possibly my body was craving healing between the organs I got, extra exercise, and slightly shortened sleep. Tiny things add up to a person like myself who has been bothered by this stuff enough to want to change his health.

Lol, Iguana, I told you I have no biased against carbs, its just I have a hard time finding ones that make me feel better. I'm not unwilling to eat fruits, just unable to find good ones. I'm always self examining and experimenting. We bought a jicama root from the store a bit ago. I'm curious if a little raw starch will affect anything, since I haven't had starches since starting paleo. Another part of my dream had me eating potato soup. Haha

Van, I like your idea for spacing foods out. The problem lies in increasing hunger. When I start to eat I want to continue to eat until satisfied. Fat satisfies but can make me relaxed. Not good during the work day. Maybe ill continue with eating past 3 but instead of a meal, make it grazing from then until about two hours before bed, so no later than 8.

Ill call up health food stores in the area for dulse or kelp. I've never had sea plants aside from seaweed rolls on sushi, which I love. I like sea foods a lot so I assume I will like these.

Thanks for all the suggestions! I feel less lost now.

[Dr. D]

CK was right on that one. It was a complete glycogen depletion and my body couldn't handle the complete lack of carbs for how much strenuous activity I was doing. From what I hear, if you're doing heavy lifting and hard sprinting frequently, you need the glycogen or you simply won't have the energy there. There are some that argue it is possible, and the counter argument is that they aren't working hard enough. I don't know. Either way, as I'm trying to live seasonally and "naturally" I will eat an apple or so a day and continue my exercise with the notion of "bulking." After that, in winter time, I'll reduce the exercise to maintain muscle mass and reduce the carbs and "cut," as would be likely to occur over the winter.

So here's a quick layout of everything I'm doing:

Food: mostly pre-frozen grass-fed beef. I at least have liver and kidneys for now, and within a few more weeks my supplier is going to let me go and gather organs during slaughter. An apple or lemon every 2-3 days or other "natural" carb source. Also, I still consume approx. 2-3 drinks (usually 2) every 3-4 days. I notice no difference positive or negative from eliminating this for more than 3 weeks, so I still enjoy some every now and then. I think I need more variety in my animals, so I'll start hunting. I'll probably eat the "uncommon" to eat birds; robins,

Supplements: I still notice benefits from 12-16 mg of iodine. Any higher and I get dehydrated and any less and I notice no difference. I want to improve in this area as I feel it will help a lot. I have started adding back in celtic sea salt and am thinking it's doing well. I'm interested in trying the varieties of salts offered at http://www.saltworks.us/gourmet-sea-salt.asp I doubt there are any health benefits of such things, but it interests me. I also have been infrequently taking vitamin k2 at about 10-15 mg every other day.

Exercise: I'm still focused on increasing muscle mass mostly for now, but still maintaining functionality. I am doing bodyweight exercising, push-ups, pull-ups, squats,  and ido portal style movements very slowly to increase all areas of flexibility, strength, muscle size, endurance, and balance. It's quite intensive and exhausting even at short stints of approx. 20 min of working out. One set to failure if possible, then stressing the negative a little more with a "cheat" reset.

Sleep: Last night was the first night I increased my bed's incline to 6 inches. It felt very comfortable and I had no trouble sleeping. In fact, it was the first time I think I've ever woken up without a stiff spine. I dreamed of killing a cow and I left to get a knife to butcher it up. When I came back there was only the legs and an ear on the ground and a blood trail leading to my dog's bed. She had stolen the whole cow!! It was a silly dream but easy to remember. I also noticed my urine looked a little more yellow than usual this morning. Probably a good sign. I usually sleep about 8-9 hours.

Overall, I feel good enough to be off Adderall, but not "perfect." I would like a bit more energy and drive, but that's to be expected when increasing exercise. I think the incline bed therapy will make a difference. It may be the weird middle ground I'm in at 30-50g of carbs a day, but still maintaining ketosis (blowing approx. .02-.05% on the breathalyzer each morning). I'm not sure what's best at this point and like most of us, attempting to experiment. I'd probably say any given day I feel a solid 7-8/10.