Author Topic: I'm a non-organic fruit grower's son. Ask me anything.  (Read 5117 times)

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Offline Dr. D

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I'm a non-organic fruit grower's son. Ask me anything.
« on: July 10, 2013, 07:32:13 am »
As was addressed in another thread, I'm happy to let anyone know the insides of how fruit gets poisoned. Haha but seriously, I will do my best to share knowledge of pesticides and anything else.

we grow apples, cherries, and pears. Our farm is located in bridgeport, WA.

As CK asked, soil additives: I know we use ammonium nitrate sulfate, A.N.S. I'm pretty sure nothing else is used for soil. Sometimes we put strychnine in specific holes to kill gophers. I'll ask about other fertilizers to be sure.

Also we have approx. 80 acres. So we aren't empire sized corporate pigs. ;)
-Dustin

Trying to heal ADHD. Common symptoms: fatigue, impulsiveness, poor attention, no motivation.
Other side issues I'd like to get over: Acne, dandruff, tooth health (yellow, poor gums, gingivitis)

If ya ain't hungry enough to eat raw liver, ya ain't hungry enough.

We are all just doing the best we can, with what we know, at any given time.

Offline jessica

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Re: I'm a non-organic fruit grower's son. Ask me anything.
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2013, 09:28:25 am »
80 acres is pretty big though.  I lived in the middle of miles and miles of stone fruits out in palisade Colorado. I worked on one of the only organic orchards, it was 200 acres and we had a 5 acre farm.  its an interesting life, I like the idea of food forests and poly culture much more though.  there was only one example, a little experimental farm, that was growing veggies in the rows of the orchard

  thousands of acres of conventional orchards, trees and fruit, but very rarely birds or bees, lots of mosquitos though!  do you guys have issues with pesticides harming birds and bees?  what other kind of agriculture happens where you are? 

I hated when the conventional orchardists would spray, they would be in hazmat suits in enclosed tractors, and shellac the trees with shit, id get sprayed sometimes while riding my bike to town :( 

lots of Mexicans flock to the area to pick, so much so they had a health clinic and community center set up specifically for seasonal migrant farmers. they are fucking awesome and humbling to work with, do you guys get Mexicans ?

Offline jessica

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Re: I'm a non-organic fruit grower's son. Ask me anything.
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2013, 09:34:19 am »
also when are you going to convince your family you are going to take over the farm, start planting nut trees, natives, medicinal herbs, asparagus and all kinds of mushrooms, get sheep, ducks, pigs, turkeys and chicken, and turn that shit into a legit farm?

Offline Dr. D

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Re: I'm a non-organic fruit grower's son. Ask me anything.
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2013, 10:06:52 am »
80 acres is pretty big though.  I lived in the middle of miles and miles of stone fruits out in palisade Colorado.  thousands of acres of conventional orchards, trees and fruit, but very rarely birds or bees, lots of mosquitos though!  do you guys have issues with pesticides harming birds and bees?  what other kind of agriculture happens where you are?

80 acres is big enough to need about 20 pickers to make it through harvest without fruit getting overripe. 30 is ideal to get it done the smoothest. The last three years we've had ~10. The border is getting shut down and its difficult. Americans are starting to make it this way; for the first time in my life last year, 5 out of 10 pickers were white. We cut some poorly producing trees down over winter so we can redirect.

We have TONS of birds where we live. Starling, sparrow, robin, king birds, goldfinch (state bird of WA), pheasant (a family nested in our orchard this winter and I nearly walked into the chicks this spring while walking my dogs), vultures, osprey, chicken hawk (a family nested IN our shop last year, pretty cool), red tail hawk, and the occasional eagle. We also have a fair amount of coyotes and deer.

You mentioned the thousand acre style orchards and there is a company here that has one. They are the Gebbers. They own an empire. They flood the market with poor cherries and drop the prices for us medium sized guys. The smaller than us farmer usually sells at farmer's markets and makes their own price. We are stuck in a poor middle ground. Downsizing is possibly our best option at this point. Sadly we can't go organic if we wanted to because our neighbors are in close enough proximity that they would prevent our certification.

Bees: As long as I can remember, this whole area hasnt had many honey bees. We have a lot of hornets and wasps, mosquitoes vary from year to year. This year isnt bad, last year, within 10 seconds of walking outside, if you didn't get bit you were lucky. We always pull in honeybees from a bee keeper. The cool thing there is he gives us a few gallons of raw honey from the bees from our orchard.

Other agriculture: apricots and peaches are fairly big. Plums as well. I don't know who is organic or not by driving around, but one of my best friend's parents have been organic for 20 years and they grow apricots, nectarines, and peaches. Also, they raise alpacas and harvest the yarn. They are real naturey people. The mom is a vegetarian and has been since 14. She doesn't eat "anything with a face." I've had a bit of discussion with her about my raw paleo, and she said "eatin like a caveman?" haha I love them.

There is a fair amount of cattle raising too, but a lot that's grain fed.

The Gebbers also run a logging company, if you want to consider that agriculture. They are very well off. Their weekly payroll during cherry harvest is over $1 million. The employees they pay are Jamaicans they paid to get visas and flew them in. This is, again, due to the shortage of mexican pickers. So the little guy suffers while the big guy has no problem fronting a little more money to make even more. They are buying up almost every orchard around the area.

Since searching like crazy I've been able to find some smaller animal raising farms and am trying to make friends with them. (sheep, goats, cattle, all grass fed and hormone free etc.)

Although the area resides where 3 rivers connect, there is very little professional fishing.

I can't think of much else.
also when are you going to convince your family you are going to take over the farm, start planting nut trees, natives, medicinal herbs, asparagus and all kinds of mushrooms, get sheep, ducks, pigs, turkeys and chicken, and turn that shit into a legit farm?

haha, 80 acres changes slowly. Especially when the last two years have been nothing but loss. I have no interest in taking over, solely helping after a two year loss before committing to a career. You see, I graduated college and they needed serious help. So I took time to work the farm and try and help. I'm working on getting us away from the big corporate packing shed (that many others seem to think they are changing, caring less and less about the growers) and getting us plugged into farmers markets that can handle approx 400,000 lbs. of fruit.

IF I were to utilize this land, I'd keep the shop area for butchering/storage/general use/ etc. and have stables. Most of the trees would come out, leaving just enough that could be picked by no more than 10 people, preferably 5 or less, myself included, self pack the fruit, and the rest of the land which is on a steep hillside would grow grass/hay/alfalfa. I'd train my dog to herd (the one in my profile pic, a German Shepherd from East German and Czech lines, wonderful working dog) and I'd raise sheep, goats, and cows. My interest in pigs is minimal, it's my love of jewish things. And since going raw, my interest in farmed poultry has waned dramatically. I may get into it eventually, but for now, I want to find that pheasant living outside. ;) My brother has started a garden this year and he's the one more interested in plant foods. I've always been interested in animal foods. Any knowledge of the Hebrew view on Cain and Abel?
-Dustin

Trying to heal ADHD. Common symptoms: fatigue, impulsiveness, poor attention, no motivation.
Other side issues I'd like to get over: Acne, dandruff, tooth health (yellow, poor gums, gingivitis)

If ya ain't hungry enough to eat raw liver, ya ain't hungry enough.

We are all just doing the best we can, with what we know, at any given time.

Offline jessica

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Re: I'm a non-organic fruit grower's son. Ask me anything.
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2013, 10:29:08 am »
sweet, thanks for the thorough answer!

im suprised you cant get certified organic, I wonder if its different state to state? the orchard i was on was certified OG and nothing more then a regular row of space was between our orchard and the neighbors who sprayed.  the rule was no spraying if the wind was over 5 mph.poultry for eggs and poo, raw yolks are amazing. 

im glad you have birds and bees, it was weird not to have them around.  do you guys have to big fans to ward off frost? or frost cannons? haha, such a weird experience!

poultry is great for eggs, egg yolks are amazing raw foods.  plus they make a lot of poop, same with pigs, good for poop and digging.  they are easy to keep and good money if you can find a market. 

pick your own berries are great too, especially in the PNW where you don't have to irrigate all the time

Offline Dr. D

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Re: I'm a non-organic fruit grower's son. Ask me anything.
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2013, 11:56:37 am »
sweet, thanks for the thorough answer!

im suprised you cant get certified organic, I wonder if its different state to state? the orchard i was on was certified OG and nothing more then a regular row of space was between our orchard and the neighbors who sprayed.  the rule was no spraying if the wind was over 5 mph.poultry for eggs and poo, raw yolks are amazing. 

im glad you have birds and bees, it was weird not to have them around.  do you guys have to big fans to ward off frost? or frost cannons? haha, such a weird experience!

poultry is great for eggs, egg yolks are amazing raw foods.  plus they make a lot of poop, same with pigs, good for poop and digging.  they are easy to keep and good money if you can find a market. 

pick your own berries are great too, especially in the PNW where you don't have to irrigate all the time

Quite true about eggs and manure. Love em both. haha. There is some law currently prohibiting us from having livestock (domestic dogs included) anywhere near our fruit. I think it's Global Gapp. They have such crap laws. The paperwork we go through is a big enough reason to get away from it; chemical inventory, spray records, hand washing records, we can get fined $10,000 if a bathroom doesn't have toilet paper.

We don't use fans to ward of frost. Our neighbors do. As I mentioned earlier, being on the hillside we are on, a lot of frost tends to have trouble "settling" and we do great with running water for frost prevention. I don't know exactly how it works but something to do with water running over ice prevents it from dropping much lower than 32 F. The cannons we use are for scaring birds off our cherries. We've also used electronic bird scare call machines; a strong speaker connected to a computer that uses a bunch of species' distress calls. Nifty stuff.

I'm okay with the birds as long as they dont destroy our crops. I'm fine with honey bees too. Wasps I HATE. I've been stung a few times and it usually leaves a welt bigger than a tennis ball. Stupid creatures.
-Dustin

Trying to heal ADHD. Common symptoms: fatigue, impulsiveness, poor attention, no motivation.
Other side issues I'd like to get over: Acne, dandruff, tooth health (yellow, poor gums, gingivitis)

If ya ain't hungry enough to eat raw liver, ya ain't hungry enough.

We are all just doing the best we can, with what we know, at any given time.

Offline jessica

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Re: I'm a non-organic fruit grower's son. Ask me anything.
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2013, 12:37:10 pm »
yeah, organic cert. is pretty particular too, but its good stuff like compost temps, and also spray logs.  we used spray made out of wintergreen herb and clove and it smelled like Christmas and burn the hell out of some weeds, and also warded off bugs with garlic and chili spray made from stuff grown on the farm the previous year.  it was interesting to notice the bugs flock the fields of veggies every time the surrounding orchards sprayed.

where do you ship your bees from?

I totally know the hill effect, the landscape on the western slope of Colorado was really dramatic and the orchard I worked for had a really majestic spot under a rock formation called "buzzards roost".

http://www.ranchodurazno.com/gallery/58068#links

http://www.ranchodurazno.com/gallery/64200#links

there are some phots but it doesn't really show how truly awesome it was, those cliffs would cook the peaches so sweet, we grew good melons in that shit soil too

I remember now those fake bird things.  there really weren't many birds, we found a few dead little ones in the chicken pens.  we had the chickens and pigs in a large pen right in the middle of the rows of veggies, and those were surrounded by the orchards.  its too bad they don't allow for polyculture orchards, its pretty much the only thing that makes sense


Offline jessica

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Re: I'm a non-organic fruit grower's son. Ask me anything.
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2013, 12:40:40 pm »
also, do you eat a lot of fruit and how are your teeth?

Offline Dr. D

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Re: I'm a non-organic fruit grower's son. Ask me anything.
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2013, 01:43:41 pm »
http://walking-wild.com/highplainswildflower_rawhoney.html

There is where we get our bees from.

I wish we could grow at least some sheep. Resourceful little fellas. Plus herding with my dog would be fun. Ah well, schutzhund it is.

I used to eat a lot of fruit. And sugar. I notice actually my teeth healing more simply from the elimination of grains, since I havent changed much else in my diet, other than fewer carbs, raw fat and meat, and elimination of veggies And grains. My teeth currently have about 4 cavities I can count and about 2 more on top I can't see but can feel. There were years when our cherries were like crack to me. I would keep on eating them because I enjoyed them. Then I'd get excess gas and say ill give them a break. Then of course I'd go like one day without any. Haha cherries are a very exotic fruit. Especially as fresh as ours are. Now a days I've developed a restraint. Now that I don't eat processes sugars, its very easy to have any number and stop. Or none at all. I think as that has happened my teeth get better. Last week on zc that was the best my teeth have ever felt in my life. I really want to find out how to make zc work for myself because I think it may be my personal ticket to health.
-Dustin

Trying to heal ADHD. Common symptoms: fatigue, impulsiveness, poor attention, no motivation.
Other side issues I'd like to get over: Acne, dandruff, tooth health (yellow, poor gums, gingivitis)

If ya ain't hungry enough to eat raw liver, ya ain't hungry enough.

We are all just doing the best we can, with what we know, at any given time.

Offline ys

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Re: I'm a non-organic fruit grower's son. Ask me anything.
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2013, 10:47:48 pm »
what are the biggest expenses?

Offline Dr. D

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Re: I'm a non-organic fruit grower's son. Ask me anything.
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2013, 02:54:58 am »
what are the biggest expenses?

Labor (picking, the rest isnt that bad), and sprays. Yearly expenses come out to about $500,000 and $350,000 is in picking costs.
-Dustin

Trying to heal ADHD. Common symptoms: fatigue, impulsiveness, poor attention, no motivation.
Other side issues I'd like to get over: Acne, dandruff, tooth health (yellow, poor gums, gingivitis)

If ya ain't hungry enough to eat raw liver, ya ain't hungry enough.

We are all just doing the best we can, with what we know, at any given time.

Offline ys

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Re: I'm a non-organic fruit grower's son. Ask me anything.
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2013, 03:04:39 am »
sprays=fertilizer, pesticides??

Offline Dr. D

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Re: I'm a non-organic fruit grower's son. Ask me anything.
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2013, 03:08:55 am »
yes, sorry, just shorthand because pesticides is used as an umbrella term but that affects bugs/pests. Fungicides, fertilizers, pure minerals (we spray calcium for firmness and to increase longevity), herbicides, etc. Do take a large portion, but that's cause its all centered in springtime. Post-harvest spraying isnt that bad, but still expensive.
-Dustin

Trying to heal ADHD. Common symptoms: fatigue, impulsiveness, poor attention, no motivation.
Other side issues I'd like to get over: Acne, dandruff, tooth health (yellow, poor gums, gingivitis)

If ya ain't hungry enough to eat raw liver, ya ain't hungry enough.

We are all just doing the best we can, with what we know, at any given time.

 

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