Vice article featuring Me

[sabertooth]

Ive just contacted Tristan from the Primal Edge pod cast, and am working out the details of doing an interview...am convinced the time is ripe to bridge the gap between Raw paleo and cooked Keto...... will post the link here whenever it comes out

[van]

I watched the latest one you posted with Harry.   He definitely has opinions about raw vs. cooked.  As in, he LIKES cooked meat, and raw doesn't appeal to him.  You might try sharing with him the number of people, including my girl friend, who now doesn't enjoy cooked meat at all, and is becoming a fine judge of great tasting raw meat.  Same was true when you give someone full fat milk who has been drinking one percent for years, or vice versa.   he won't want to admit he's caught in his own routine,, so you may have to lead him to where he discovers it himself.     I used to work in a lab, and if we wanted to work on any particular project, we would say to the director of the lab,,"remember that idea you had to ..."  and then he would say, 'right, yeah, why don't you guys give it a try..."   I like him and his podcast, but there is a strong flavor of I know it all there.   Good luck. 
   One thing many miss:  'we' usually think of raw sugars/carbs fruit and veg. juices as being cleansing.   But in truth Raw proteins, and most likely raw fats, are just as much or more cleansing to a body that has filled itself with damaged proteins.  THIS may be too much for him to go into, as he indeed continues to fill himself with damaged proteins from heat (dissonance).   Although I doubt he cooks him meat past medium.  I can't remember exactly how he likes it,, shared that with Harry. 

[sabertooth]

Im still attempting to format my own ideas in regards on how to best relate the issue of Raw to people who seem to be doing just fine with mixed and cooked. There are a number of different approaches to consider and many nuances to be explored

People who are without any major digestive issue may indeed feel a lot better by switching over to a cooked low carb diet, relative to where they were before. They may have enough of their own inherent digestive strength in order to compensate for the the lack of enzymes and the mitigation of heat generated toxins, of cooked meat. The negatives are not felt strong enough in order to encourage them to try anything different, especially once they have become habitually accutom to the taste of cooked.

People like myself who were already suffering from digestive insufficiency, the negative effect of cooked meats were much more dramatic, and the gentleness of raw so much more soothing. There is also the instinctive developmental aspect of this diet which I believe is distorted from cooking. Cooking makes sick meat taste palatable by destroying the subtle ques that indicate quality , while also destroying the purging bacterial life forms which function to teach you what not to eat. People who unwittingly eat cooked meat that is from sick animals are not as capable of noticing the immediate detrimental effects, and so over time end up assimilating larger portions of ill flesh into their own bodies. This might not be as much of an issue to people who are 100% certain of the quality of their meat, as it is for people who may be consuming whatever they can by from the corner stop and shop.

The one notion I wish to be able to demolish is the idea that somehow cooking makes sick meat safe to eat. It may indeed kill the off the bacteria which cause acute manifestations of food poisoning, but it will not purify the contaminated flesh at the molecular level, and so in a way it prevents the instinctive purging reflex of aberrant foods, which leads to the body becoming inundated with all sorts of negative elements which overtime can negatively effect overall health in a number of insidious ways.

[sabertooth]

It looks like the interview might take place sometime on monday, still waiting for exact time confirmation.

I would be open to any other bright ideas regarding what information would best be shared with what seems like a mostly cooked keto host and audience?

[Dingeman]

It looks like the interview might take place sometime on monday, still waiting for exact time confirmation.

I would be open to any other bright ideas regarding what information would best be shared with what seems like a mostly cooked keto host and audience?

Mention something about raw meat being even more healthy than cooked keto/zero carb. An explanation mentioning that most people transition like this: (vegan) standard diet > ketogenic diet > zero carb diet > raw primal/paleo. The health benefits of raw meat are just even better than cooked meat. I know that will do well with the cooked meat diets.

[van]

Tyler seems to have the handle on all the heat created toxin studies.  Maybe ask him to send you the most succinct to share on pod cast.  If so, would be good to have links available for host to post after talk. 

[sabertooth]

The topic of heat generated toxins should be fairly easy for most people to comprehend, without having to go into all the scientific names of the various specific carcinogens. I would like to develop vernacular terms to offer up as easy to comprehend explanations for phenomenon such as Advanced glycation end-products, by referring to them as caramelized proteins that gunk up the metabolic works.

The ways in which information is virtually transferred these days through memes and thought bits, it may helpful to to use a number of different approaches as to reach people on many wavelengths. I was thinking about turning the Socratic method to the subject of cooking...by first speaking to the benefits of raw and finish by begging the question "what are the benefits of cooking" then going about debunking all the  ad nausea presumptive rhetoric that has been used to justify the addictive and detrimental habit of cooking meat. I think it would play out best to become involved in a dialectic, back and forth with the host. Tristan is smart, but I have noticed some logistic holes regarding his stance on cooking, which could give me good opportunities of making convincing counterpoints for those whose minds are open.

I will try not to make the entire conversation raw centric, in consideration for the host and the primal worlds proclivity for cooked flesh. It would do good to find common ground and relate common experiences, as well as share in practical information which would be of help to both Raw and cooked based communities.

[TylerDurden]

Well, I don't exactly have a fund of studies, just this sort of thing:-
https://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/index.php?topic=501.0
. I am not a scientist so cannot 100% judge whether a study is fully reliable. All I can say is that there are tens of thousands of studies done on advanced glycation end products(AGEs), easily findable on pubmed(look under "dietary-derived advanced glycation end products).Also focus on heterocyclic amines(HCAs) and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons(PAHs). The latter two are key components of car-exhaust fumes and cigarette-smoke, and there are also non-food-related studies done on the harm caused by those components as regards smoking  - comparing cooked food to smoking and air-pollution is a powerful piece of PR.

There are also acrylamide and nitrosamines(NSAs) but they have much less solid data on their potential harm.

There is also the new-age angle, so focus on the Inuit, among others re raw food diets. As I recall, Armand Tanny got his raw food ideas from studying the Hawaiians/Polynesians.

[sabertooth]

The podcast is set for Wednesday 1:30 CST

[van]

you also might slide into a conversation about how our egos want to believe that 'we' have figured out the superior diet.  We all have it, completely evident on all forums.  Any thing that 'we' invest as much time and energy in, it's natural we want to believe 'we' got it right.

[Dingeman]

As Van said, mention something about this idea that 'modernity' has got everything figured out. People are born with the idea that there is nothing left to explore. That's why so many people mean drugs and other unhealthy stuff when they tell you to 'live a little'.

Modernity made us sick and disconnected from what life really is about. As Weston Price put it: 'Life in all it's fullness is Mother Nature obeyed.'

[van]

I was referring more to our individual egos, yours, mine, his, as believing that we all think, at present time, that we have found the ideal diet. That ideal diet is something most of us think that others would benefit from also. Hence, Vegans, paleo folks, raw paleo, carnivores..   I can remember what a jerk I was when I first went raw vegan in the seventies.  Must have drove my parents up a wall with my ridiculous claims, and preaching to them to do the same.  It's no different here, with all of us giving opinions and advice.  Yes, we all have good intentions, but it also comes with a belief system.  Just look how many times each of us thinks one way or eating is good, and then six months later, we've adopted another belief.  Tristan is no different. He appears to have many of his own.

[TylerDurden]

Hmm, Van has a point. Yet, a lot of RVAFers, after a long time, seem to adopt Instinctoish ideas. Not necessarily the hardline ideas of Guy-Claude-Burger, but the basic themes, where one eats a certain raw food at one point because one instinctively feels it works, while one may have to try another set of foods when one is in another state a month later  until one finds another food which works. Same applies even if one is not unhealthy/ill.

[sabertooth]

Encouraging others to develop instinctive eating habits is at the core of my basic ideology and is paramount to my own particular eating habits. Encouraging people to take personal responsibility in developing their own diet and with time and experience gain the self knowledge needed to make periodic alterations to the diet in accord with changing internal nutritional needs and external food availability.

There may be no way back to being able to entirely use our senses to find a living in balance within nature's rhythms, but we can study our own reactions to unnatural modes, and seek out ways of living that are more in accord with the necessities of life.

Our senses are extremely powerful tools, only it seems they have been far too long neglected and allowed to go to waste in the modern world. Shopping for food and buying only what is prepackaged, gives little opertunity for the development of instinctive eating, many of the foods are then thoroughly cooked and inundated with seasonings and artificial ingredients.

By stripping the diet down to just a few raw essentials, the senses are set free from the intoxications of desensitising foods, and after a period of realignment it may be possible to begin to use cravings judiciously to integrate other foods outside the scope of Raw Paleo. This is a bit of a gray area because it can be difficult to tell if these cravings are not driven by ulterior motives, such as a deep longing for the opiates of dairy....or else by a social need to do as others do so as to fit into what is normal.

I could probably expand my diet further and experiment much more than I am currently. I have begun to eat dissolved bones that have been cooked with vinegar, which is very effective with eliminating keto cramping without the need for salt or other mineral supplements. When at the sushi bar I will also eat a side salad with some sweet ginger sauce, and a couple of pieces of complementary pineapple. When I eat a lot of fish without enough fat, a little carbs seems to help alleviate the protein overload.

[van]

good summary. a few more examples, if you will.  I practiced instincto for some years.  Had yearly coaching on my trips to France years ago for five years in a row.  Have to admit I had so many ideas in my head that my intincto qualities were slow to develop.  And having said that, I now carry an idea and experience that fruit and or sugar in any form, no matter how good it smells, or makes me salivate (  instinctual clues ) is not good for my body.  I'm sure there are those out there that will say I just didn't heal my insulin resistance  with correct Instincto practices for long enough,,etc.. but from what I have experienced to date with having spent the last ten years or more in very low carb,  I will say that accumulated 'mental' information has rebuilt my health far more than following instincto practices, especially where the first meal of the day starts off with as much fruit as one instinctually desires..
   And thus this one example shows where at least I dug in and used the internet to connect with those other 'experts' in the world who had other knowledge about ( in this case ) using fat as fuel as opposed to sugar.
   It took me five years to finally eat raw meat ( I had no problem with raw fish due to sushi bars in the US ).  But I can remember at Montrame Castle  Instincto headquarters, watching a woman ( who was there healing herself from cancer ) eat a whole plate of raw beef fat.  I can remember how disgusted I felt.  Classic example of social conditioning.  And ironically now, I consider myself a connesiour of fat of all kinds.    And then throw in the current adopted belief borrowed from Ron Rosedale that everyone has diabetes or insulin resistance to some level and that over time depending on the ratio of carbs to fat ingested, that resistance will increase, lessen or stay the same.  But do I know that for sure? No.  And might I for some reason reverse my thinking, maybe?   
   And it is this example that I offer the notion that our beliefs come with some baggage and often are carefully guarded. 
   

[van]

I just read where the cramping and racing heart with zero carbers can be from the kidney's excreting salt to such a point that to protect certain systems eventually the body will excrete potassium instead of sodium, and that's where the problem may lie. You might try as I am doing now of not worrying about salt intake and see if then the cramps and your heart beats per minute slow down.   New info. for me, so I can offer what I read recently. 

[sabertooth]

I was always skeptical of the instinctos proclivities for large amounts of fruits. Two bites of pineapple after eating a half a pound of mackerel is about my limit. There is a point when experience must keep instinct in check. I could easily eat a half a pineapple and perhaps crave more, but from my experience the next day after eating more than a miniscule portion of fruit my ability to digest fat gets messed up and I don't feel like eating much of anything until the fruit fully cleared from the gut.

People typically come to these diets already severely addicted to sugar. My first baby foods were apple juice and rice cereal. These early exposures create pavlovian dopamine triggers, which can last a lifetime. The salavory reaction persisting even after years of low carb living. My instinctive aversion to the hangover effect is more of a secondary reaction, based on learned experience regarding the long term effects of various dietary actions. The same aversion applies to the use of Alcohol which I avoid like the plague.

I have a differing view of mineral Balancing.... perhaps I am something of an anomaly for some reason anything more than trace amounts of salt cause a very strong aversion. Even before going paleo I never added salt to my food. Ive tried experimenting with different types and different amounts, but it always seems that consuming supplemental salt causes me to feel bloated, retain water, and even headache. I have always known about being chronically mineral depleted for years before ever going paleo. I had hair analysis readings in which my potassium and magnesium were inverted...potassium being off the chart high and magnesium being low. My selenium, zinc and copper have also always been low, though the last test about 3 years ago was much closer to normal range. I am going to wait till next year and get another Hair analisis to see how much a year of bone eating has changed the profile.

There is a synergy with mineral ratios that varies greatly from one individual to another. I believe that excess salt can cause the body to flush out other minerals from the bones in order to maintain the proper ratios, and over years the reserves can be depleted to the point where the tissues have little reserves to replenish the bloods electrolytes after periods of exertion. Eating the entire bone mineral matrix already predisolved and ready to assimilate will eliminate any cramping in just a couple of hours...Actually I do not get cramps as long as I am eating enough bone, drinking enough blood, and having the occasional seafood. Only after going over three days without these foods do I begin to notice symptoms of electrolyte imbalance. Also my joints feel noticeably stronger, and my overall strength and fitness level is as good as ever.

[sabertooth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FguP2IT3DYQ

[Projectile Vomit]

A good interview. I wish he did not interrupt you so often.

[sabertooth]

This interview is more of an introduction than a final statement. I spoke with him after the interview and we are planning on doing some follow up discussions where I can get into some greater depth on particular topics. Im going to do another butcher video that will detail the entire process from picking up the animal from the farm to harvesting and preserving all the various parts. Then we will skype interview on the podcast with the footage as a backdrop, as he and the audience will ask questions...it should be very educational

I will continue to post any other updates regarding upcoming projects here.

I'm still very much trying to find my voice and am unsure about how to express certain ideas to audiences who may be unfamiliar with the raw unorthodoxy, that goes against what has been preached as dietary dogma for so long, even many in the alternative fields have difficulty in abandoning the old paradigms, taboos, and superstitions. Hopefully I can play some small part by linking into this new trend of low carb carnivore, that seems to be gaining momentum at the moment, and connect with some of the prominent thought leaders in the public arena and offer my first hand experience and insight, that it might help the growing number of newbies out there to better find their own way through the endless morass of conflicting information ....Though this way of living may never reach the attention of the majority, so long as there is a strong , vibrant, and vocal minority of people who are able to enjoy this way of life, then at least those whom wish it, will have the opertunity, freedom , and information necessary to pursue so as well.

As time goes by, more and more evidence will come out, giving validation to the raw cause, and with the latest wave of the new fangled neo-primal pilgrims soon to be coming of age, it wont be long before it will be impossible for the mainstream world to ignore...

"We are Here, We are Here" -Horton hears a Who

[sabertooth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASMp9LvZnvU

The German documentary group that did a segment on me a few years back is now doing a show with Shaun Baker and his cooked meat diet. The show is popular in Germany and the producer of the show was very open to the health benefits of a meat based diet.

[TylerDurden]

Minor quibble:- Could you please, in future, place all cooked-food-related topics in the Hot Topics forum?

[sabertooth]

I understand your concern, and generally tend to avoid posting about cooked meat, but in this thread these cooked meat celebrities are in a way relevant to some of my own media exposure. The same German documentary that did a raw segment on me is now following Shaun baker, and the same pod cast that interviews many cooked dieters also interviewed me.

I am creating a crossover media, and using the exposure of cooked meat based diet to interject the raw message with effect. When I have time to do so I am spamming some of the comment sections of these cooked keto newbies with the raw message. The wild fire of viral information is spreading the cooked meat message across the web right now, so it is up to us to walk the line and create a counterbalanced narrative in the hopes of using the cooked meat mania hype to draw attention to the raw alternatives.

[TylerDurden]

OK, maybe I am being a bit nitpicking. Funny, up till now, the main route to RVAFism was through raw vegan/fruitarian/sproutarian diets.

Err, come to think of it, re that German documentary , you complained at the time that the woman openly despised you, as I recall.....

[sabertooth]

The RTL documentary where the woman was over acting was intentionally done in a disingenuous manner. RTL is a mainstream media conglomerate that runs amok over the german and dutch world with corporate propaganda.

Galileo the program now following Shaun Baker, is an independent format whose producer is personally interested in testing the merits of a meat based diet.

https://www.prosieben.de/tv/galileo/videos/2013332-der-nur-fleisch-esser-clip
When Shauns episode comes out I will be there to spam post my segment in the comment sections of multiple platforms.