so few people.

[straight8]

Has anyone else noticed how this whole forum is comprised of so few people? It just seeems really weird to me. It seems like the same ten or so people posting all the time. How many lurkers are registered? Seems to me that there must be way more registered fellows on here.

[goodsamaritan]

A lot of people seem to be shy or just readers or too prominent a personality to admit they are eating raw meat.  Sort of like taboo in their culture.  Some are already diet celebrities in their respective diets and would rather not admit to our forum influencing their philosophies or their experiments.  Some here do not even want their true identities even if they are posting.  Must be some celebrity or work issue.

We have lots and lots of readers.  Just look at the stats.  This forum is way more read, way more popular, way more informative than cavemanforum.com which is the cooked counterpart.

I think many forums really have more lurkers than posters.  Not many have the time or patience to post stuff or feel they aren't ready to put in time to discuss.

[van]

And, part of the reason is that there is so much argumentative energy here, that many are fearful of saying something and being ridiculed for it.  That is why most forums eventually trail off into nothing,, that and the basis of what is extolled has no lasting benefit.  I encourage all of us to take a more inquisitive response to anything that is offered here.

[goodsamaritan]

Agree on the argumentative energy Van.

Seems to be translated from surviving our face to face family and friends when we shifted to RAW PALEO DIET as there is far more argument and conflict there.  I've seen Derek's wife post on facebook and it seems in her youth she could not process Derek's personal choice to survive and heal... maybe when she grows older and sees her own children try and thrive on raw paleo diets will she be convinced to accept Derek's choice.

[cherimoya_kid]

And, part of the reason is that there is so much argumentative energy here, that many are fearful of saying something and being ridiculed for it.  That is why most forums eventually trail off into nothing,, that and the basis of what is extolled has no lasting benefit.  I encourage all of us to take a more inquisitive response to anything that is offered here.

A big reason we even have the collected knowledge we do is because of argumentative know-it-alls like me and Geoff Purcell. 

You almost have to be hard-nosed to eat this way, in this culture, at this time in history.  So, this is what we end up with.   

You make good points, though. I'm just not sure how we stay factual while becoming more gentle. I'm sure there's a way, but I think many of the mods, especially Geoff and I, are so focused on finding and spreading no more or less than the exact the truth about health and nutrition that we haven't spared much thought for being people-friendly.  I'd say, roughly-speaking, that that is also what's going on with a lot of our more confrontational members, like svrn, etc.. But maybe I'm wrong.

If you can suggest some ways that will make the forum less confrontational while not wavering from the focus on fact, I'm open.  At any rate, I'm glad that you're a member here, and appreciate your posts.

[Iguana]

…spreading no more or less than the exact truth about health and nutrition that we haven't spared much thought for being people-friendly.

Does any of us holds “the exact truth”?

GCB lauched the raw paleo movement 48 years ago by asking questions, not at all by pretending to hold the ultimate, exact truth. These questions are still open today:

- Did the human species have enough time to fully adapt to cooked, Neolithic and modern foods?
- Is such an adaptation possible?

Decades of experimentation tend to lead to a “no”, at least as an answer to the first question, but still it would be wise, more humble and thus more acceptable to most folks to recognize that we do not hold the ultimate truth but are still experimenting and only have provisional and incomplete answers.     

[TylerDurden]

Apparently, on any forum it is normal for c. 2-3% of  the members to post frequently, another c. 37% post only rarely, while the rest never post at all. We`re no different.

[Aura]

Does any of us holds “the exact truth”?

GCB lauched the raw paleo movement 48 years ago by asking questions, not at all by pretending to hold the ultimate, exact truth. These questions are still open today:

- Did the human species have enough time to fully adapt to cooked, Neolithic and modern foods?
- Is such an adaptation possible?

Decades of experimentation tend to lead to a “no”, at least as an answer to the first question, but still it would be wise, more humble and thus more acceptable to most folks to recognize that we do not hold the ultimate truth but are still experimenting and only have provisional and incomplete answers.     

IMO, there cannot be an adaptation to cooked foods because molecules released by cooking varies everytime..
But this does not mean some cooked foods are deadly.
Like for example I think that starch (from tubers, roots) is not harmful when eaten in moderate amounts.

But proteins and fats, along with micronutrients HAVE to be raw or max. steamed.

There are some plants in the wild that need to be cooked otherwise are poisonous.

[zaidi]

And, part of the reason is that there is so much argumentative energy here, that many are fearful of saying something and being ridiculed for it.  That is why most forums eventually trail off into nothing,, that and the basis of what is extolled has no lasting benefit.  I encourage all of us to take a more inquisitive response to anything that is offered here.

Good point.

My observation:

1) Newbies are although guided about raw Paleo, but one wants to know more before getting courage to follow this Paleo Diet.

Therefore, the Project of "Raw Paleo Book" should be completed. Many will get fully satisfied after ready full book where all important issues are presented in proper Sequence.

2) Perhaps the "Witness"  section, how members here got health (when possible, then witnesses should be in Video form where Members briefly telling their earlier diseases and how they were cured etc.).

3) Collecting Videos of Raw Meat/Fish Eating at one place. A newbie will get a lot of courage of trying it if he "watches" other eating it.

4) Once again coming back to Van's observation about "Argumentation" ... how to encourage the newbies to ask questions (even if they have idiotic questions in the mind) and contribute?

Perhaps a sub-section with title "Newbies Questions/Answers ".


All in all, an Entire Section of "Newbies" .... with Sun-Sections of:

1) Short Introduction to Raw Paleo
2) Detailed Book about Raw Paleo
3) Video & Other Witnesses
4) Newbies Questions/Answers

This seems to be the only way of encouraging the newbies to become active and take more part in the discussions.

[cherimoya_kid]

Does any of us holds “the exact truth”?

GCB lauched the raw paleo movement 48 years ago by asking questions, not at all by pretending to hold the ultimate, exact truth. These questions are still open today:

- Did the human species have enough time to fully adapt to cooked, Neolithic and modern foods?
- Is such an adaptation possible?

Decades of experimentation tend to lead to a “no”, at least as an answer to the first question, but still it would be wise, more humble and thus more acceptable to most folks to recognize that we do not hold the ultimate truth but are still experimenting and only have provisional and incomplete answers.     

Well, that's why I said "finding and spreading", not just "spreading".  The truth is out there, but no one knows all of it yet.

[Projectile Vomit]

Has anyone else noticed how this whole forum is comprised of so few people? It just seeems really weird to me...

I've noticed and commented on this before. I think the argumentative discourse turns a lot of people off, and drives many people, particularly women, away. If the moderators wanted to overcome this, they could set posting guidelines based on communication systems like Non-Violent Communication and Clean Talk, among others.

I've certainly noticed that by adopting the communication patterns in these systems I've found it far easier to gain other's acceptance of my unique dietary choices.

[ys]

Raw meat eaters are a very tiny group compared to cooked paleo (Paleo hacks) or vegan (30ban).

I have never run into another raw meat eater in real life but run into vegans all the time.

There are dozens of smaller cooked paleo and vegan forums.
This is the only raw meat forum (in English) that I know about.

[TylerDurden]

There are many  raw meat eaters out there than people here imagine. I know that there is a contingent of palaeos who consider themselves to be "cooked-palaeos" but who eat almost all their animal foods and plant foods raw. Then there are all those tribes like the Nenets who eat mostly raw. Plus, some WAPFers eat mostly raw, too etc.

[goodsamaritan]

... and millions of Japanese who don't speak English.
... thousands of Ilocano Filipinos who eat raw beef, raw goat and raw shrimps who don't bother with forums
... thousands of arctic tribes people who have no internet access.
... millions of French who would rather speak French (they eat some raw meat)
... millions of Russians who would rather speak Russian (they eat some raw meat)

[sabertooth]

 

"There are millions of people who eat this way all over the world"I said to the two dorks who interviewed me today.

Then they ask me" well how many in Kentucky?"

"Honestly I don't know."

We must seek out and find the others. There have been a lot of primal dieters who have sought me out after the vice article went viral, I will try and steer a few of my new friends this way.

A lot of people seem to be shy or just readers or too prominent a personality to admit they are eating raw meat.  Sort of like taboo in their culture.  Some are already diet celebrities in their respective diets and would rather not admit to our forum influencing their philosophies or their experiments.  Some here do not even want their true identities even if they are posting.  Must be some celebrity or work issue.

We have lots and lots of readers.  Just look at the stats.  This forum is way more read, way more popular, way more informative than cavemanforum.com which is the cooked counterpart.

I have often had the delusion that Daniel Vitalis has been trolling my post and using some of my ideas.

[goodsamaritan]

Those diet celebrities eventually have to come clean and give us some credit for influencing their ideas.

Yes you diet celebrity you reading this right now.

[svrn]

Raw meat eaters are a very tiny group compared to cooked paleo (Paleo hacks) or vegan (30ban).

I have never run into another raw meat eater in real life but run into vegans all the time.

There are dozens of smaller cooked paleo and vegan forums.
This is the only raw meat forum (in English) that I know about.

iv run into 3 people in my life who regularly eat raw meat. Only one of them who i see quite regularly does it for health reasons. the other two just love raw meat Also there are many foreigners who ate raw meat in their homeland where it is totally normal who I did not count in those 3(the three being american).

[Iguana]

... and millions of Japanese who don't speak English.
... thousands of Ilocano Filipinos who eat raw beef, raw goat and raw shrimps who don't bother with forums
... thousands of arctic tribes people who have no internet access.
... millions of French who would rather speak French (they eat some raw meat)
... millions of Russians who would rather speak Russian (they eat some raw meat)

Yes, eating some raw meat or fish is extremely common in many countries. Nothing extraordinary to brag about. But eating all raw during several decades without any food neither heated over 40° C nor processed  is, in modern times, a completely ground-breaking (and very successful) experiment we're doing. There's no tribe eating 100 % raw anymore, they all cook some food.

[straight8]

Always figured the raw meat thing was more popular. Remember reading some article in a 2001 edition of rolling stone. Most hunters I know sample raw deer meat discretely after the kill. Be cool if the lurkers would say abit more.

[svrn]

The raw paleo book has already been made, its called we want to live by aajonus vonderplanitz.

while I concede that juices arent paleo one can get around this by purchasing a green star juicer which extract the juice in the same way as our teeth would.

The juice you get is in effect that same as one would get from sucking the juice out of veggies and spitting out the fiber, something many monkeys do. It just saves you a whole of time. Make sure to swish the juice around in your mouth before swallowing though to mix with your saliva and mimic real chewing more.

[goodsamaritan]

Aajonus needs an addendum book that has caveats about stuff that don't work for some people.

Like DAIRY.

And TOMATOES.

He's big on those 2 foods.

Also people allergic to CHICKEN... lots more people than the blood type diet says... even if organic.

And the moderation of the extreme... do not drink water

And the moderation of the extreme... do not eat salt

And that thing about all parasites are good for you...

[Inger]

Aajonus needs an addendum book that has caveats about stuff that don't work for some people.

Like DAIRY.

And TOMATOES.

He's big on those 2 foods.

Also people allergic to CHICKEN... lots more people than the blood type diet says... even if organic.

And the moderation of the extreme... do not drink water

And the moderation of the extreme... do not eat salt

And that thing about all parasites are good for you...

Great points GS. Every single point I agree on. We always need the whole context! Parasites can well be dangerous in certain circumstances... depending on your health, environment...etc. We need to be free of dogmas and believes that are not reality. There are also dogmas about cooked foods that are not real, IMHO. Making them more dangerous than they are, and putting all in the same box. Making the raw food diet look like a cult..lol there are smarter way to get the message out, I think. More relaxed, more scientific, and always open to improvements.

Even if I so much appreciate and love the message of AJ, he sure did not got it all right (who does, BTW  ). We can only try to do it better, always developing.

I am thinking about writing a raw paleo recipe book, that is meant for beginners, just to make RAF a possibility, and to evolve into more instincto style (seasonal and local) WOE. I am thinking to write about it just like that, the recipes are for the beginning, or for special occasions, later you will not need these. And I would touch different issues too, like how to make high meat, importance of eating the whole animal... many things. I really have planned to use this winter for this project.

(maybe Tyler can help with the editing  )

[TylerDurden]

I would be happy to edit such a book.

[svrn]

Aajonus needs an addendum book that has caveats about stuff that don't work for some people.

Like DAIRY.

And TOMATOES.

He's big on those 2 foods.

Also people allergic to CHICKEN... lots more people than the blood type diet says... even if organic.

And the moderation of the extreme... do not drink water

And the moderation of the extreme... do not eat salt

And that thing about all parasites are good for you...

I believe all those exceptions are just a tiny percentage of people and people who just make mistakes. FOr instance I was really sick on raw dairy for the first month or so and I wasnt able to drink cow milk at all for probably a year. This is all detox and people need to just push through it to see the benefits, detox is never fun but necessary. Now I consume as much as I want of all of this with no problems.

also some people will drink a quart or half gallon of raw milk in a day on their first day and then say milk is bad. The fact is if you never lifted weights in your life and you suddenly try to bench press 200 pounds its simply not gonna work and youll probably hurt yourself. Does this mean bench press is bad? No it means you cant jump right into doing something youve never done before, you need to slow build up the muscle and then bench pressing 200 pounds will be perfectly healthy.

this is the same for raw milk if you havent ever drank it in your life, the digestive enzymes needed will simply not be present. Dont blame the milk blame the approach and not sticking through past the detox. Imagine if you all gave up raw meat and fat on your first detox, where would you be now?

to stop drinking water greatly improved my digestion and quitting salt greatly reduced my joint pains and completely eliminated my headaches.

People can see when I just started posting here I was quite skeptical of aajonus. Yet as time went by I learned to admit to myself that he was right about almost everything.

theres some genetic freaks out there though such as myself. I cant eat avocado at all. Does that mean avocado is bad? No it means that I have a rare mutation.

well be seeing a lot more strange mutations especially as the damage from fukushima really begins to show.

[TylerDurden]

The above claims re detox are nonsense. A genuine detox is of a short, temporary nature, usually lasting days, never more than a few weeks. Granted, one can develop more immunity over a long period of time as one`s body grows stronger due to rising health(I think allergies increase in severity  if one is ill), but that has nothing to do with detox.