Author Topic: Russell Brand, is he a messiah or a bolshevik?  (Read 30296 times)

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Offline sabertooth

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Russell Brand, is he a messiah or a bolshevik?
« on: October 26, 2013, 03:44:30 am »
http://gawker.com/russell-brand-may-have-started-a-revolution-last-night-1451318185?autoplay=1

Strange times indeed when an actor and comedian calls out for world wide revolution. Although I am inspired by what he says, I am still skeptical. 100 years ago the Bolsheviks had a similar spiel and once the revolution was over, even bigger bastards took control than the ones who were thrown out.

Still he is right about many things, the time is now and we cant let the current political power structure set the agenda for the world of the future. The establishments politicians and their owners are not going to present the kind of alternatives that are needed to bring about the kind of changes that would benefit "We the People". We must take back the right to chose for ourselves what kind of world we want to live in, and take personal responsibility for the future we create.

Its the information age, anyone of us here is just as capable of being informed about the state of affairs in the world as anyone else. No longer should we allow decisions that effect everybody to be made behind closed doors by a small group of wealthy people, while the 99% are not allowed a seat at the table.



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Offline van

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Re: Russell Brand, is he a messiah or a bolshevik?
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2013, 04:01:38 am »
gosh, what a dynamic insanely smart guy that is.  How well spoken, and am impressed how he kept his center in the midst of such an arrogant interviewer.   I just hope for his sake, he wasn't on some drug, that that was his own energy.  Otherwise he'll burn himself up.   Check out the work that Kennedy is doing with taking down the coal giants and replacing them with solar, and wind power.    I agree the time is now.  I think it will take the form of an internet channel that informs and offers people daily choices and simple means to vote with their dollars.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Russell Brand, is he a messiah or a bolshevik?
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2013, 04:07:17 am »
Err, Russel Brand is not viewed too seriously by us Brits!  l)
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Russell Brand, is he a messiah or a bolshevik?
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2013, 04:39:36 am »
I don't think he is on Drugs, he is like a man possessed by ideological demons, the passion is real.

Err, Russel Brand is not viewed too seriously by us Brits!  l)

Neither was Karl Marx,  ;)

He is a loose cannon for sure, an extreme leftist, but one whose ideals may have mass appeal to the proletariat(or the 99% as he calls them).
 
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Offline ys

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Re: Russell Brand, is he a messiah or a bolshevik?
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2013, 01:37:17 pm »
I think he is an idiot. 

Mass appeal to proletariat never worked long term.  Chavez comes to mind.  Huge appeal, not much substance.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Russell Brand, is he a messiah or a bolshevik?
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2013, 06:24:41 pm »
Q: Russell Brand, is he a messiah or a bolshevik?

A: Both - a messiah for the Bolsheviks.

Err, Russel Brand is not viewed too seriously by us Brits!  l)
I hope you're right. I'm already dissappointed that he generated as much popularity there and elsewhere as he has.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Russell Brand, is he a messiah or a bolshevik?
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2013, 06:43:18 pm »

I hope you're right. I'm already dissappointed that he generated as much popularity there and elsewhere as he has.
He is viewed by most educated Brits as a pathetic joke. He sort of represents effeminate men of the metrosexual type. Plus he is vulgar and ill-spoken in the worst way.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline wodgina

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Re: Russell Brand, is he a messiah or a bolshevik?
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2013, 07:10:07 pm »
He doesnt sound intelligent to me.

Blames the system, blames large corporations for his drug problems. Talks fast in a high level squeal and it's pretty hard to listen to.

He talks about heavily taxing corportions, that profits are bad. This guy is a millionaire.
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Russell Brand, is he a messiah or a bolshevik?
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2013, 07:44:34 pm »
I agree. He's like an ugly bearded lady with a flaky and frantic veghead poodle persona and an annoying nasally voice, arrogant, sneering, condescending, and crude manner. Which is why it's a disappointing sign of the times that he became a somewhat popular celebrity both in Britain and the US (apparently based at first on an awful comedy act that relies largely on insulting people and saying controversial things and his usual nauseating behavior), and apparently bedded many women, if he is to be believed.

He is a symbol of much of what currently ails modern society. The best I can say for him is that his ex-wife Katy Perry acted so badly after their divorce that he seemed almost reasonable by comparison, though at least she is attractive.

I can't stand the trend of the past 10 years or so for celebrities to offer their advice to the world on subjects they know little about, and most of the masses listen to them because they are celebrities, rather than people who have proven that something works.

Welcome to our new elite of celebrity trash - Russell Brand, Katy Perry, Paris Hilton, Lady Gaga, Britney Spears, Madonna, Rihanna, Charlie Sheen, Kim Kardashian, Snooki, ... . People famous and acclaimed largely for acting like scum. Celebrity dipshits.  >: ;D

Geez, Brand even has an insane-Messiah image and a "Messiah Complex" shtick:



I'm hoping this signals his shark-jumping peak and coming decline back into obscurity.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2013, 09:21:48 pm by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Russell Brand, is he a messiah or a bolshevik?
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2013, 12:27:43 am »
I am wary of him too, but I don't think slandering him for who he is without directly awsering the points he raises intellegently adresses the problems of our times .

I would like to address the message and not the messiah (we all fall short of the glory after all)

He is right about many things. Exspecially about people bing complicit with a system that exploits the poor. The 2% to 10% which represent the middle and upper working class are guilty of going along blindly with the system and benefit greatly by the exploytation of the rest of humanity.

The working poor in the first world along with the entire third world are not a part of the political power structure, so why should they continue to participate in democracy and capitalism?

His prognosis of the problems are fairly accurate, and its disturbing that more people arnt concerned about the issues he brings up, Though I must confess his solutions are very suspect.

I agree with van that through internet channels "We the People" can offer up the real alternatives and choices that could change the world into an egalitarian system governed by reason and consensus.
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Russell Brand, is he a messiah or a bolshevik?
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2013, 12:50:18 am »
Slander is a false accusation. They are my opinons, not so-called "slander."

He is right about many things. Exspecially about people bing complicit with a system that exploits the poor. The 2% to 10% which represent the middle and upper working class are guilty of going along blindly with the system and benefit greatly by the exploytation of the rest of humanity.

The working poor in the first world along with the entire third world are not a part of the political power structure, so why should they continue to participate in democracy and capitalism?

His prognosis of the problems are fairly accurate, and its disturbing that more people arnt concerned about the issues he brings up, Though I must confess his solutions are very suspect.
All of that confirms what I said about a messiah for the Bolsheviks, as does the call to "change the world into an egalitarian system." Russell Brand's message so far is old Bolshevism in fancy new dress.

It's nothing that the Bolsheviks haven't said before:
Quote
Lenin’s state was to be a Bolshevik state supported by workers and peasants. ...

Each type of class society will have its own political history, of course, but Marxism recognizes this as the politics of definite social formations, which will, however, come to an end with the abolition of classes, the last political revolution in the general social developmental process. Quite apart from its objective possibility or impossibility, the Bolshevik regime had no intention to abolish the wage system and was therefore not engaged in furthering a social revolution in the Marxian sense. It was satisfied with the abolition of private control over the accumulation of capital, on the assumption that this would suffice to proceed to a consciously planned economy and, eventually, to a more egalitarian system of distribution.

- Paul Mattick (Marxist political writer and social revolutionary), "Reform or Revolution,"
http://www.marxists.org/archive/mattick-paul/1983/reform/ch06.htm
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Well, you know
We'd all love to see the plan"

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« Last Edit: October 27, 2013, 01:11:41 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Russell Brand, is he a messiah or a bolshevik?
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2013, 01:18:20 am »
Your trifling over semantics now, and are still ignoring the real issues.

Long experience has taught me this about the status of mankind with regard to matters requiring thought: the less people know and understand about them, the more positively they attempt to argue concerning them, while on the other hand to know and understand a multitude of things renders men cautious in passing judgement upon anything new.

Galileo Galilei

It may not be Slander, but unless you know exactly where he came from or know the people he is speaking for, then I do think there is a bit of pretence and prejudice in some of your judgement. There are under-served members of society who have suffered greatly due to injustice. Many people like myself grew up as a witness to "it"and can see exactly where he is coming from and I salute him and his ill mannered "devil does care" assaults upon the preestitutes and media whores, 

Now he may just be pandering to the downtrodden for personal gain, playing a role, acting out a shtick, then so be it , bless it be. To speak with the passion of resistance shared by all those who suffer from the messiah complex is something I personally admire.

I wont let anyone just stereotype everyone who shares a belief of social, political and economic equality, without explaining your views a little more clearly. There has to be something he said in the interview that you can agree with.



« Last Edit: October 27, 2013, 01:32:07 am by sabertooth »
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Offline sabertooth

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Re: Russell Brand, is he a messiah or a bolshevik?
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2013, 01:28:35 am »
You ask me for a contribution
Well, you know
We're doing what we can

John Lennon
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Russell Brand, is he a messiah or a bolshevik?
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2013, 09:33:07 pm »
Your trifling over semantics now, and are still ignoring the real issues.
Nonsense.

Quote
It may not be Slander
Correct.

Brand would probably be horrified by your videos and critique you more harshly than I did him, so it's an odd choice of hero to defend.

Quote
but unless you know exactly where he came from or know the people he is speaking for
Unless they say so, he doesn't speak for "the under-served members of society who suffered injustice." That's an arrogant presumption by Brand and far too many in the leftist elite.

Quote
There has to be something he said in the interview that you can agree with.
You started out this thread with a question, but if you're only interested in what people agree with Brand on, then it seems like you already had your answer in mind.

You're the one saying nice things about Brand's "revolution" and asking for agreement with it, so it's your case to make if you wish. Can you name a single new or rarely discussed idea you support that Brand presented in his article or interview? Can you name a single new or different action that you are going to take as a result? If you do, then I'll respond. So far I don't see much substance to respond to.

You ask me for a contribution
Well, you know
We're doing what we can

John Lennon
Now you're singing my tune! :D
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Russell Brand, is he a messiah or a bolshevik?
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2013, 02:51:25 am »
Its obvious you are not going to address the questions raised by Brand, and are using straw man tactics to defer from the points he raises, which are important and need to be addresses. Sure he is an Ass hole, but so was John Lennon in many respects, and if he were alive today there is no doubt he would be taking sides with Brand.

John Lennon 1969 Interview I Met the Walrus

Without writing a complete manifesto I will start out by saying

The solution as I see it is a return to more Ancient Athenian Democracy, where everyone views were able to get a public hearing. There is a huge difference in whats going on now than in the times of the Bolshevik revolution. Today the peasants have the power of the WEB, and will not be so easily swept under an iron curtain. I cant believe that everyone else cant see that there is a huge shift towards more tribal ways of sorting out public affairs. There is a real chance this time around for individuals of all classes and races to participate in the process. Members of a free an open society like Me and Phil can wax philosophical and discuss openly and defend ardently our differing views. Then through the discourse others will be inspired to participate and find the flaws in all of (Mine, Brands, Lennon's, and Phils) view points. This is how progress towards more peaceful and universally beneficial solutions should be made.

These discussions have to happen and the Bolshevist perspective has to be addressed or else there will be hell to pay( this is my own messianic prophecy)  If there was an open discussion for all to witness between all those who wish to participate; the Brands, CEO, Royalty, Working man( white and blue collar), politicians, lawyers, builderburgs, and of course dont forget Meetoto.  Then sustainable and beneficial solutions would emerge through the process that best represent the whole of humanity.

(You May say that I'm a Dreamer but Im not the only One)
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Russell Brand, is he a messiah or a bolshevik?
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2013, 03:41:06 am »
Its obvious you are not going to address the questions raised by Brand, and are using straw man tactics
What straw man argument? I asked these two simple questions:

> Can you name a single new or rarely discussed idea you support that Brand presented in his article or interview?
> Can you name a single new or different action that you are going to take as a result?

Its obvious you are not going to address the questions raised by Brand, and are using straw man tactics
What straw man argument? I asked these two simple questions:

> Can you name a single new or rarely discussed idea you support that Brand presented in his article or interview?
> Can you name a single new or different action that you are going to take as a result?

Questions aren't arguments. Will you answer the questions or not? If you don't wish to, that's your choice, and any more discussion between us on Brand after that would then probably be pretty pointless.

There is one other odd occurance re: Brand that I'm curious about. Does anyone know why he posed in front of an image of the mass murderer Joseph Stalin during this past apology for one of his misbehaviors? The BBC article assumes he was "whitewashing" Stalin and some Youtube commenters assumed it was some sort of sick joke, but I'm not assuming anything. I haven't seen an explanation from Brand on it.


"The whitewashing of Stalin"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7719633.stm

Russell Brand apology statement
Photoshop is a possibility, though if that were the case, one would think that Brand would have complained about that to the BBC by now.

And if anyone's interested, Richard Nikoley posted some similarly critical comments about Brand's Paxman interview here: http://freetheanimal.com/2013/10/russell-jeremy-paxman.html Nikoley has praised Brand in the past where it was due, so it's not like he's gunning for Brand or any such thing.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 04:15:20 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Russell Brand, is he a messiah or a bolshevik?
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2013, 07:24:34 am »
Ok, Phil I was going to try not to write a manifesto, but if you want answers I will humor you some.

I can support many of his ideas, and they may not be new but within the new age in the minds of a new kind of person they can take on an entirely different meaning. I have no moral attachment or aversion to people like him, If he says something that is inspiring then I support it, and when he talks about climate change and socialist governments I oppose it.

At the end of the final judgment on the said revolutionary, there is a mixed up feeling.

I have no faith that revolution will set things to right, but change must occur, it always has, all I hope for is a kind of soft ball anarchy where no one wins total victory, and after all is all said and done we all can muddle through it without to many injuries.

I agree with this statement to answer your question>
"I don't get my authority from this preexisting paradigm which is quite narrow and only serves a few people, I look elsewhere for alternatives that might be of service to humanity."


Your second question is a little insulting>
As far as what actions I am taking, wtf. You still don't know me by now. Have you been following what I am tiring to do. My life is devoted to action. Working for the cause of real alternatives.

No we are not going to devise a system of global utopia on this forum, but we can get a few ideas out there and have a bit of a laugh!
We all must look elsewhere for alternatives.. We must even look beyond Russel Brand and the Brand new BS which is everywhere.

Whats happening is now in my opinion is business as usual. The extreme leftist are fighting out compromises with the extreme right over issues that both of them are wrong about, and the centrist are being forced to pick sides, so what ever New Deal comes out of the "back room" will just serve to uphold the status Quot. Considering the magnitude of ignorance and greed which is directing the process, and the power that is now being exercised over every aspect of human life, by governmental and corporate organizations, there is much cause for alarm, and there should be a call to action for any true Patriots among us.

A prime illustration of this is OBAMA CARE. The extremes on both sides are feverishly working for or against this monstrosity. Universal healthcare is the cornerstone of a soviet state. We are already in the midst of the Bolshevist take over, and just as 100 years ago, the socialist are being run by corrupt interest who know nothing about Health care at all and care nothing about improving the health of the nation . Our medical system has become a huge money racket that is banking on the fact that people are going to get sicker and sicker and therefor need more and more expensive medical treatments. All the while absolutely nothing will be done to correct the environmental causes which are responsible for all the sickness in the first place.

Why aren't they doing universal studies on the toxicity and deficiency of the millions upon millions of Americans whose medical conditions are a direct cause of environmental and dietary imbalances. If only a fraction of the money that will be wasted on universal sick care were to be invested in correcting the environmental factors responsible for the cause of most illness, then we could use the other several hundred billion dollars to work toward that Utopian dream.

This is a huge part of my message  and so far we haven't been able to get it through the media filters, but I personally am going to give it my best and with help from others we can TARE DOWN this wall of ignorance and greed that are the real obstacles to the common good.

 
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 07:38:11 am by sabertooth »
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Offline sabertooth

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Re: Russell Brand, is he a messiah or a bolshevik?
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2013, 08:15:17 am »
This is an interesting and balanced perspective on the Russle Brand interview.
An Open Letter to Russell Brand - Let's Start a Revolution!
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Offline ys

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Re: Russell Brand, is he a messiah or a bolshevik?
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2013, 08:19:52 am »
Here is the problem.  Unless this gets addressed first it'll be business as usual.  And, of course, term limits.
I saw these numbers being circulated by W. Buffet.  Not sure how true this is.

Salary of retired US Presidents . . . . . . . . . . . $180,000 FOR LIFE 
Salary of House/Senate members . . . . . . . .   $174,000 FOR LIFE
Salary of Speaker of the House . . . . . . . . .   . $223,500 FOR LIFE
Salary of Majority/Minority Leaders . . . . . . . .  $193,400 FOR LIFE

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Russell Brand, is he a messiah or a bolshevik?
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2013, 09:54:34 am »
Your second question is a little insulting>
As far as what actions I am taking, wtf.
ST, that's not my second question. I'll spell it out in more detail to try to make it more understandable.

The first question was: "Can you name a single new or rarely discussed idea you support that Brand presented in his article or interview?" It seems your answer to this first question is no, which is also my impression. So we seem to agree on that and I do also agree that he's couching these old leftist ideas in new agey language and communicating them quite a bit via the Internet, both of which are somewhat recent phenomena, though he didn't originate them and many other folks use them both. I don't yet anything truly original or uncommon in his article or Paxman interview. Maybe it's elsewhere.

The second question, which was based on the first, and dependent on your answer to the first, is: "Can you name a single new or different action that you are going to take as a result" [of a new or rarely discussed idea that Brand presented in his article or interview--not one of your own ideas]?

Both questions were regarding Brand's ideas, not your own original ideas. Brand was the subject of the original question that was supposedly the topic of the thread, and it was he and his views that I asked the questions about and have been discussing all along, not you or your views. I hope that clears up the confusion.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 10:07:31 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Russell Brand, is he a messiah or a bolshevik?
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2013, 10:48:55 am »
Come off it buddy, the Brand interview was posted to start a much deeper discussion, not to get into a pissing match with you. I addressed your questions, I'm sorry if my short hand response wasn't made clear enough for you.   

To Clarify
I found some of his words inspiring and the old leftest ideals couched in new terms have value to me personally, That particular quote I gave you at the beginning of the interview sparked my curiosity and I believe that it was a good message for him to get across to the TV News crowd.

If the masses of people hear what he has to say and get pissed off about it enough to begin seeking out their own alternatives then People like me and Stefan Molyneux will be able to reach out to the new seekers with a much broader message, and this is the process by which mass awaking can and will occur.

 I think you are being prejudice, narrow minded, condescending and just plain cantankerous in this discussion. But I will defend to the death your right to be so.......

So anyway we are at an impasse it seems.... now I want to shift gears and use the interview along with our personal disagreements and misunderstandings to spring board into other ideas.

Phil.
Do you have anything to say about Stefan Molyneux take on the interview?


« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 11:01:43 am by sabertooth »
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Russell Brand, is he a messiah or a bolshevik?
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2013, 11:07:13 am »
No worries, I'm not at all interested in a pissing match. I'm also not particularly interested in getting into a deep philosophical discussion, sorry (maybe someone else here or at Richard Nikoley's blog will take you up on that). Your question solicited our views on Brand and I gave my honest opinion, as did some others. They were just my opinions and were not meant as a philosophical treatise. That's all, nothing more. It was a nice opportunity to vent about one of my least favorite celebrities, for which I thank you. I'm frankly puzzled about why he's as popular as he is and basically agree with Tyler's and YS's assessments of him and his views, though I wouldn't go so far as to call him an idiot. At this point, I think I've had my fill of him. If I never see another Russell Brand interview, it will be too soon.

If I had known that my comments would be construed as anything else and misrepresented so negatively towards you, then I wouldn't have commented, as that was not what I was trying to do. They were no more directed to you or somehow a pissing match than Tyler's or YS's or Richard Nikoley's critical comments about Brand were. Nikoley doesn't even know you, so if it helps you understand that nothing I've said is about you, then think of my comments as coming from him, for his comments were rather similar, albeit milder, which is actually uncharacteristic for him ;D (and I also agree with Nikoley about the positive things he said about Brand), or from some stranger.

My critical comments were all about Brand, not you. You are not Russell Brand, so if they were condescending or cantankerous they would be so to Brand, not you. I haven't noticed anything particularly offputting in your own ideas in this thread. Any notion that anything critical I wrote was somehow directed at you or your ideas is a misunderstanding.

I hope that finally clears it up. If you take any of this somehow negatively or still believe that I was being prejudiced, narrow minded, etc., ..., then my true message is still not getting across and it's probably better that we drop the discussion.

I've tried to watch a few of Molyneux's videos in the past and couldn't sit through them all and no longer bother to click on them--not because of his views, but because I can't take his voice and speaking style. I find that it quickly wears on me, sorry. If you like, you could post the gist of whichever of his points you thought were salient. My guess is that I'll agree with them.
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Offline sabertooth

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Re: Russell Brand, is he a messiah or a bolshevik?
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2013, 09:45:25 pm »

My critical comments were all about Brand, not you. You are not Russell Brand, so if they were condescending or cantankerous they would be so to Brand, not you. I haven't noticed anything particularly offputting in your own ideas in this thread. Any notion that anything critical I wrote was somehow directed at you or your ideas is a misunderstanding.

I hope that finally clears it up. If you take any of this somehow negatively or still believe that I was being prejudiced, narrow minded, etc., ..., then my true message is still not getting across and it's probably better that we drop the discussion.


This does clear things up, and I am at fault for not explaining exactly why I find the way Brand is being criticized a little  narrow minded. It is due to my own lack of eloquence.

I feel that when people are automatically dismissive of a person like Brand without acknowledging the fact that there is substance to what he is saying, it shows a lack of compassion. In the Days of the Soviet Revolution, the upper crust was guilty of the same lack of compassion. People were starving and suffering in mass due to a system that would not listen to their crys, and the longer they were ignored the more susceptible they became to the radical ideology of people like Marx and Lenin, who at least seemed to care. Then of course the people were betrayed, Lenin was poisoned and the soviet state fell under the control of despots even worse than the Czars.

 It is the role of us who are aware of the lessons of history to awaken the others so that when the New Marxist take on the NWO Authoritarian Systems in the struggle for power, "We the People" empowered by knowledge that is supported by experience, and not just blind ideology, will be able to put forth other options. In this way we will evolve past the need for ever increasing control and domination by centralized governing systems that attempt to lord over everyone.

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish, and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper, and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger, those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord, when I lay my vengeance upon thee........................... This may not be relevant, I just like that quote.......


What I want to convey is that many members of the "great intelligentsia" who snub their nose at people like Brand, and ignore the crys of suffering, all the while being isolated cozily in their ivory towers,  think themselves so much holier than thou, but I disagree, because in my view they lack compassion. The man was Abused as a child and grew up surrounded by people who neglected him. Perhaps he is taking the wrong view of things and lashing out against the societal establishments which has ignored him and his early traumas in the same way that the Czars of Russia ignored the Peasants who lived wretchedly upon a diet of potato skins while they lived in absolute splendor.

What Stefan Was explaining and I wish you could stomach his voice long enough to listen, at least on this point, is that Brand was right on accessing the issues with the current system, but was wrong about the solution, because the kind of power needed to take back the power will only be corrupted and used against the people whom were supposed to be set free. It was an earnest attempt to educate Brand about the nature of power.

We need to take the discussion away from the confines of the old hat political critiques that focus on putting everyone's ideas into categories where they can be labeled narrowly and have boarders put upon. Let us view Brand as a Young Jedi Knight, like the young Anakin Shywalkerer, the force is strong with him, but there is still much fear which could very well lead to him falling to the dark side. Stefan is playing the role of Obi-Wan Kenobi and attempting to teach Young Brand to use the force wisely. Brand is still young... young messianic revolutionaries don't often hit their peak until their mid forties, when wisdom begins to fully mature. So we should be patient with some of his immaturity and encourage him in the same way Stefan is attempting to.




« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 10:19:18 pm by sabertooth »
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Offline jessica

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Re: Russell Brand, is he a messiah or a bolshevik?
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2013, 10:00:29 pm »
It's the message that resonates, to get stuck on the messenger is just being petty.  It's important for mainstream folks to see that it is alright to be disappointed and in pain over what our current governmental systems are doing and to yearn and feel passionate about something truly different.  To even start to give those who are only just discovering that this might be a source of the upset in much of their lifes some kind of context or language for that is always beneficial.  To trivialize the fact that we are in deep doodoo because the messenger has some contradiction with lifestyle and message is silly.  We all have that, deep down we do, that's the problem. 

I think deep I everyone hearts we know what is wrong, what we are doing, living and participating in is only serving our suffering.  At least its that dull ache of our times to know something isn't right.  It's to be on this precipice and have the choice of jumping off courageously and proactively or to wait until we are pushed. 

Those in government and industry thrive on fear and separation, of course their fearful minds will try and protect this failing system anyway they can, war, media, healthy and intelligence of citizens etc..all the while ignoring the degradation of what is the true sustenance of life, nature, environment, community, tradition and culture. 

Those who are taking action and empowering themselves in their own lives and communities thrive and act on love and trust in the goodness of others who have also freed themselves of living in the oppressive and fearful mind space of the overarching global power structures and the graciousness of nature to provide true sustenance.

Anyhow I am surprised to see a gaggle of men react so pettily, calling him for is physical appearance, etc.... lol....Its kind of like how environmentalist were mocked for being hippies or how any group is marginalized for being idealistic.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 10:15:16 pm by jessica »

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Russell Brand, is he a messiah or a bolshevik?
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2013, 09:13:35 am »
Jessica,

Finally someone who understands

Thank you
A man who makes a beast of himself, forgets the pain of being a man.

 

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