Russell Brand, is he a messiah or a bolshevik?

[PaleoPhil]

That's the problem with a messiah who is all message. A person cannot be a "leader" if he is all talk.

Yes, and Brand has moved beyond talk now, if but a little. Maybe he will do more in the future. I try to always be open minded. One of the key aspects of MLK, Gandhi and Rabbi Yeshua is that they were men of action, however flawed, who put their lives on the line. Time will tell whether Brand's actions do any substantial good and how committed he is. He would earn more of my respect if he walked the walk more, such as by leaving his expensive digs and moving into a tenement yard or yurt.

As YS pointed out, past Bolshevik messiahs resulted in the horrible Soviet system, however unintentional it allegedly was. "Fooled me once..."

[nummi]

Somewhat long...

You seriously need to rethink your entire worldview regarding this topic because, seriously and honestly, none that you take as real is based on reality. It's based on lies, literal lies, and all of it. Not trying to offend or anything, just putting the fact straight out.
I once thought and believed the same you still do. I mean the negative and blind belief - where you absolutely do not know where the object of belief actually came from, why it is, what it really is, etc. But then reality got in the way and I found out.

There's too much to consider and say to give a whole answer. So you'll have to find the missing on your own.

these these appeared not just because someone wanted it like that, it took thousands of years to evolve the money system we have today.  it is not perfect, but it works the best at the moment.

They in fact did appear just because someone wanted it like that. But then the question is why did someone want it like this? Quite simple really - living according to money. You don't have money, you don't live; you have little, you live a little; you have a lot, you live a lot. But who controls the flow of money? Who decides who gets how much? The system? But then why is the system designed in a way that people live in severe lack of money and suffer day in and day out because of it?
Population increases, prices increase. Who makes the extra money? And from what? Also, why does the debt of countries and people only rise, why can't anyone pay up their debt? Debts constantly increase, there's always more money needed to pay them up. But then where should they get the money to pay their debts? Squeeze people even more?? Or take a lot of money from a bank - which translates again into another debt. Where should the money come from to pay up the ever increasing debts? Why is the system designed in a way that debts rise and rise and rise? Where does the money come from? Who makes the money? Who keeps this circle of imbecility running, and why?

It's obvious nothing is right, everything is wrong. If money was so right and so good, then why is the system designed to squeeze people who already don't have anywhere near enough for a decent life; why is the system designed in a way that people literally become slaves to money and they literally are willing to do anything for it? Because they believe money is the only reality, that money is the only way it should be and only way it can work? Why do people even take money as the only and best and right way of society, when, as you can see yourself just by looking around anywhere, that all money does is hurt everyone!
Have you ever noticed or considered that this present society is one that's driven by suffering and fear. Lack of money for a decent life is suffering, the constant thought of "can I pay my bills, my debts this month" is generating constant fear.
Do you think it is right for a society to be driven by suffering and fear, when in stark contrast there exists happiness and joy?
Being a rawist, I think you know well enough what suffering and fear is like, or should be like, and what it does to health and productivity in every way. In opposite, you also know what joy and happiness does to the same aspects. One takes lower and lower, the other higher and higher.
It is all so obvious.

Who makes all the food, clothes, everything else? Does money do that? No! People do all of that. Money only gets in the way.
There are so many jobs that are about managing money itself, that deal with just money - those jobs are 100% pointless waste of workforce that could alleviate, by a lot, the work hours of those who actually produce something essential that everyone needs.
How many jobless people are there? There's no need for them to be jobless, there's so much to do absolutely everywhere, always and ever. And they can't utilize themselves because there's no money for them, because no one's willing to pay a decent wage for them?
If everyone was utilized in producing something essential and necessary, and no pointless crap, no nonsense, then one person would maybe have to work just one day a week. Is one day a week too much?

In what conditions do people work better and more efficiently? Suffering and fear, or happiness and enjoyment?

Money is backed up only by lies the people are led to believe and live by.

Rewards as they are viewed from capitalistic perspectives are lies. We don't need rewards, we need food, clothes, tools, etc. - things that actually matter and actually are absolutely essential for positive progress and enjoyment of life.
What better reward than happiness and enjoyment of living a life worth living?
Do you enjoy the lack of money? Or just do you enjoy money? Or is money actually a burden to you? Would you rather live in a world where you have all you need and get all you need, whenever you need it, and thus live in constant happiness and enjoyment and thus in the true reward of life? Or would you rather live in a world where you live in constant fear of running out and the suffering of deficiency? Pointless to ask, isn't it...

It's all beyond imbecilic.

Look at what happened to Soviet Union where no one could own Intellectual Property and could not be rewarded monetarily.  They've got nothing except for special interests like military and space and even then most of it is already far behind Western products.

Soviet Union was a charade, a "false flag" nonsense, or such, an attempt to make moneyless societies seem stupid, impossible, and very very bad. Globally. You fell for that lie and are still in it, for a time so was I, because it is taught to us in school, and through other methods, and we are also taught to not question "authority". And who gives us all that "knowledge" of what is real and right and impossible? "Authority" of course... Since we are taught to not question authority, we simply believe what it says without ever thinking critically.
Considering you know about dieting and the lies of health that "authority" spews; you know authority literally lies about diet and health... Is it really such a big leap to consider that maybe the lies go much farther and much deeper?

So when someone brings out various moneyless systems I see it as a step backwards.  Humans been there already.

If you meet a dead end, you have to go back to see where it all went wrong, and why. Money is a dead end, going back is removing it altogether. You cannot fix the problem if you keep the underlying factors in place. The same with health, you cannot heal if you don't address and remove the real underlying cause.

Has humanity been in a moneyless society with such numbers of people? Well, I'm fairly certain it has, but those societies were ended on purpose with nuclear and energy weapons of mass destruction... of which there is abundant proof globally, and absolutely no proof that any such things didn't happen.

Backward... Money is backward. Removing it is onward.

Just look yourself, at present humanity and what money is in actual truth doing. Forget what "authority" claims and has taught you, just for some moments, and look, you cannot miss it.

If I have a rare skill or a great idea that's in high demand, how do you I think I get rewarded in moneyless system?

Demand? Rewarded? They are lies. Both of them, at least by the rules of capitalism, of money.

If you have a rare skill, why wouldn't you be able to utilize it? And you say it's in high demand... In a moneyless society... Contradictory...
You evidently lack the definitions and understanding necessary to see how and why a moneyless society would work. If you apply capitalistic values and rules and try to understand a moneyless society through those, then of course nothing would work!! Different set of rules and values. It's like trying to describe human metabolism through steam technology or hydraulics principles and rules, or whatever else that doesn't fit at all. Different values and rules - you don't even know what they are - and are asserting understanding of a system you don't even know the rules and values of.

[sabertooth]

Money is the God of our age, and the peoples faith in it, is truly a religion onto itself.

The inner circle of the financial establishment have taken on the role of the Pharisees, in disseminating monetary dogma and enforcing the primacy of their Money over all other forms of exchange. Today we can see the same old stories play out, just as Jesus had decried the money changers, there are prophets of our age railing against the financial orders, in the same fight for what is essentially a cry for justice and fairness for the meek!

No one whom has a smidgen of sanity can possibly believe that the institutions which control Money can be transformed overnight, or that through some revolution money can be done away with. Its taken eons for our monetary systems to evolve from primitive barter, into the world banking system. The question is what is the next step. If our current systems are out of balance and not sustainable, then we need to work on ways of making it more so. Perhaps one day we will evolve into the star trek economy, which Gene Rodenberry Predicted to be around 2400. Hopefully by then we will be evolved enough to no longer require a debt based money system to fund the progress of humanity.

Until that day, we need to focus on what the founders of America were focused on, when they broke free from the bank of England. The American revolution was an economic revolution which was fought for their right to financial independence. Of course soon after independence the money vultures came in and established new perches, this is why Jefferson said that each generation needs its own revolution!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEC0GT_8l_I

[Hav]

Money is the God of our age, and the peoples faith in it, is truly a religion onto itself.

meritocracynow.net

[TylerDurden]

meritocracynow.net

The above link has no genuine element of meritocracy. It goes on and on about equality, and equality of outcome is the most pernicious evil that has ever beset humankind. Equality of opportunity is also a fraud as, for example, people who are more intelligent or talented  automatically have an advantage over others in a genuinely meritocratic society, and that website talks about how absolutely EVERYONE, no matter how stupid or untalented they be, should have equal opportunity to all others. The only possible way to achieve that is to ruin the chances of intelligent or competent people to rise above the masses simply because the morons and the incompetent cannot improve themselves past a very limited point.

[sabertooth]

There are fallacies on both sides of the equality issue that are seldom articulated very well. People have been grappling with this issue for as long as we have been naming gods, and tinkering with the religious ideals that are at the heart of the issue of equality and inequity. Being a universalist and pantheist, I have the view that it takes all kinds to make the world, and there is no one set of ethics by which to govern the distribution of wealth to the people( fairness is a religious ideal). There is a dichotomy which may never be resolved. We can only attempt to cultivate an awareness of reality as it is, and use this understanding to guide us on our own paths as we muddle through.

Some seem to be chosen to have wealth and be blessed with abilities by fate, which give them an unfair advantage in this game of life. Others through force of will, fight tooth and nail to get ahead. Then we have the ideal of people who are blessed with ability, and use their gifts to enrich them selves while lifting up others. On the other side, there are those who were born disadvantage... lacking in ability, knowledge, or opportunity to rise up.  People can have personal judgments as to who is more deserving, but that still does not change the fact that each path to prosperity is not determined by an ideal, but instead by reality.

There are I think legitimate grievances that arise when groups of people use their acquisitions to suppress and keep others down deliberately. Such as when the ruling elite in the days of Robin Hood made it illegal for the peasants to hunt for meat, so that they became weak and malnourished, while the kings feasted. Using the law and the power of money to enslave others goes beyond what the defenders of the free market can claim is just or equitable.  Yet we live in an age where slavery and economic tyranny reign supreme. There are nations of people that while on the verge of rising out of the third world,  have been destroyed by the empire of mammon( Iran, Iraq, Libya, along with countless others forgotten by history) People whose industry and capability begin to rival the powers that be, are being arbitrarily destroyed. Then out of the ashes of their bombed cities, a rabble of poor, maladjusted people remain which the overlords can judge as not fit or disserving of human status.                                                   

I agree with TD that giving out equality to everyone regardless of merit, is contrary to the reality of things, but I also believe that denying the masses of people the opportunity to develop their potential, by the hoarding of resources by the Money class, is just as big of a problem.

Sure there are a lot of stupid, misguided people in the world, and if just given a pension they would not contribute anything in return. Though this doesn't take into the account the environmental conditions which lead to them being as they are. Processed food, poisons in the environment, media brainwashing,education indoctrination, etc. Many of these problems facing the 8 billion people on this planet are in part related to the 1% of the worlds population that controls 50% of the worlds reasorces. Problem solving reasorces which are not being used to their full human potential, are being hoarded on a megalomaniacal scale. 

What is being spent is being invested in instruments of death and retardation. The money being spent on war could easily take care of everyone on the planet. Instead of training secret armies to destroy nations,( which btw is going on right now on an ungodly scale) if the same resources were used to fund mercenaries of peace, that would go into troubled places and work with the locals to develop systems that would allow them to live indigenously and in harmony with the local ecosystem, just imagine what kind of world there could be( at least I can still dream)