raw fats, raw pig fat

[JaX]

What's your source of raw fat and how much do you eat per day?

I've seen many people recommend suet (the fat around kidneys).. I tried it, and it honestly is terrible... In the taste as well as the texture. It not only sticks to the roof of your mouth and is hard to swallow, but it tastes of absolutely nothing.

I can't see myself adding 1/2 pound of raw suet per day to my diet... How much are you suet-eaters eating of extra fat?- and are you low carb or zero carb?

I'm very low carb and if I eat too much protein and disregard fat I feel more bloated.. The fat source I have found that I find absoloutely delicious is raw pig fat from the butcher. I'm at about 1/2 pound+ per day. It took me 2-3 days to get used to that much fat but now I'm really craving the taste of raw pig fat, and I need that much fat for my energy.

What's you guys' view on pig fat? Is it an optimal fat? should it be avoided? I know that pork is grain fed.. but damn.. pig fat tastes a thousand times better than suet, I could probably eat more of it than what I eat now.

[RawZi]

    Fats are fats.  I see no problem with it.  I ask though, doesn't any commercial place let pigs eat truffles, acorns and palm fruit?  Pigs are omnivores like us, not grainivores.  That's abuse.

[van]

  My suggestion would be to look at the literature regarding grass fed fatty acid profiles as compared to grain fed.  Pigs are really mainly fed grains, I suppose some tubers or beets, but the grains that built their fat stores will mostly determine their fat profile.  Try to get beef grass fed back fat.  It's good.  sometimes we like something so much, we want to believe in it.  that could also be said of me regarding my liking of back fat.

[Sully]

I once read that pigs don't sweat, and so the toxins are left in the fat. I'm unsure if the toxins are left in the fat, but I know pigs don't sweat, thats why they lay in the mud to cool off.

I'm currently eating suet for my fat. I like it. But it does tend to stick to the upper part of my mouth.

[Raw Kyle]

You could try grass fed pork fat from Slankers and see if it's any good. Or like someone else said the back fat of another animal. Right now I'm eating bison suet, or maybe hide fat, I'm not sure. The Slankers guy I last ordered from was confused and I think he sent me both and I'm not sure which is which.

[Satya]

Hey Guys,

I think the correct term is pastured pigs, just like pastured poultry.  You see, pigs and fowl are omnivores, and while they will eat some grass, they prefer other food as well.  Usually, grassfed is a term used for cattle, sheep and ruminants in general.  They are true herbivores and grass and weeds is all they should eat.  It's all they eat in nature, anyway.  Whereas pigs and chickens will both chow down on meat when given the chance.  My chickens love all sorts of raw meat and organs.

[Raw Kyle]

Right you are Satya.

[goodsamaritan]

What's your source of raw fat and how much do you eat per day?

What's you guys' view on pig fat? Is it an optimal fat? should it be avoided? I know that pork is grain fed.. but damn.. pig fat tastes a thousand times better than suet, I could probably eat more of it than what I eat now.

coconut meat, avocados - when in season, fertilized egg yolks, beef muscle yellow fat, beef bone marrow, in emergencies anchor butter from new zealand, fatty fish, fish eggs, squid eggs, raw pili nuts when we have them.

I experimented with pigs but I couldn't source organic pigs.  So my experiment with pigs turned out as expected.  I felt horrible and stopped it.

[TylerDurden]

I generally far prefer the taste of grassfed bone-marrow or raw mutton fat for my fat-sources. I usually find the taste of raw suet a bit  bland, but, on some occasions, I've had the opportunity to get hold of a really high-quality source and it tasted quite good. I also, sometimes, find it best to let the suet age until it's covered in a greeny-brown mould on the surface. It tastes a bit like a pongy raw cheese, then.
If you can get hold of a decent source of pasture-fed pork then go for it, but it's pretty  rare as most pigs are deliberately fed on diets very high in grain(often 100%, according to some farmers I've spoken to!). Some farmers may allow their pigs to forage in natural areas(rather than boxed up in a pen), in which case they will have better nutrition - you'll just have to ask around.

[rafonly]

"I once read that pigs don't sweat, and so the toxins are left in the fat"

this is the opinion of the muslim & jewish religions

i tend to somehow agree w/ it if applied to the meat of grain fed, penned, organic or not pigs > the pork found in 99.99% of meat markets & supermarkets, which comes wrapped in planks of candle wax

dietary stearic acid (aka candle wax) may be used by the human body for fuel, thermogenesis, or storage (body fat)
the brain, however, has no use for that dietary wax since it makes its own stearic (18:0 sat fat), palmitic (16:0 sat fat), & oleic (18:1 mufa) fatty acids

but
if the above quoted statement were used to refer to pastured hogs, though, it could not be farther from the truth

pastured pork has an air of olive oil & basmati rice; actually its fat is just like solid olive oil in color, texture, fragrance, flavor
would that be considered a sign of toxicity?
(myself, even though i can still remember & identify them, have not had any olive oil or basmati rice in at least 3 years; i rather let pastured hogs develop their own olive oil type of fatty acid profile in their bodies, which i can then enjoy as my food; why should i take away their food)

for a non-religious opinion on pork see here:
http://kidpieces.wordpress.com/my-purpose-of-life/pig-porkpros-n-cons/

for the beauty of pastured hogs see here:
http://www.pedronieto.com/en/rearing.asp

[JaX]

If you had to choose between these two sources of fat, which would you choose:

1) PASTEURIZED Organic Butter

2) RAW Grain-fed Pork Fat

[goodsamaritan]

I would choose the butter.
I've tried the raw grain raised pork already.
I have anchor butter from new zealand for my children.
I have yet to find raw butter anywhere.
I did find ghee too.  We use it to cook some of my kids' food.

[JaX]

The prblem is just that heated/pasteurized saturated fats can cause illness? And to get all the fat I need I have to consume at least 1/2 pound (one entire package) of butter per day.

Do you guys think that would lead to health problems long term? consuming THAT much pasteurized butter?

I can only get suet very rarely so on the other days  I need an extra fat source but I don't have many options as you can see

[Satya]

I don't get it: Why are these your only choices?  I don't know where you are in the US, but you could get it shipped.  I know Slanker's has big minimum order requirements (I think I have heard that, but I don't use them), but other sources don't.  You should be able to find something somewhere that is traditionally raised.  The Weston Price Foundation has a realmilk.com site for raw dairy products, if that's the route you go.  Then there's eat wild for local farms that may sell raw fat.  I'd go for beef fat if you can get it

[JaX]

As I said I CAN get beef fat but only rarely since my butcher rarely has any and only gets beef once per week or so.. I am determined to find another source of fat, even if it takes driving 500 miles to get some raw butter.. but until then (which might be some months since I am very busy at the moment) what would you go with Satya, raw grain fed pig fat or pasteurized organic butter?

[Satya]

Yes, you did bring up suet.  And I see you noticed my avoidance in answering the question. 

Okay, I'll bite.  If by grain fed pork fat, you mean conventional feed lot-raised pigs, then I would choose organic butter, even heat treated.  You see, these feed lot beasts are shot up with hormones and antibiotics.  They are often sprayed with pesticides, as well, as their living conditions are appallingly unnatural.  These toxins will lodge themselves in the animal's fat, and will probably present a bigger load of crap than what will be found in organic pasteurized butter.  If it is yellow in color, the butter probably came from cows (or goats or sheep) raised on grass to some extent.  Is it cow butter?

[goodsamaritan]

consuming 1/2 pound of butter per day is insane.

grain based pork whether cooked or raw is so non-paleo and detrimental.

Don't worry, you will get your house in order... it takes a while to source out stuff in the beginning.

There are fatty crutches like extra virgin olive oil and yolks of fertilized eggs which should be easy to find.

[Satya]

There are fatty crutches like extra virgin olive oil and yolks of fertilized eggs which should be easy to find.

Good advice.  Egg yolks and olive oil are great ideas.  A hell of a lot better than toxic pork fat.  Also, raw, organic, coconut oil is more saturated and some rpders use that.  Of these ideas, egg yolks are good long term and pretty regularly.  Raise your own chickens for best results.  It's easy and takes minimal space.

[goodsamaritan]

Avocados are back in season in my country.  There's a lot of fat in avocados.

Of course coconut meat is fat, I eat it all the time.  But I do not know if fresh raw coconut meat is available in your area.

[primaD]

grain based pork whether cooked or raw is so non-paleo and detrimental.

Maybe detrimental but not non-paleo.  I would stick to the pork fat if I were you.  I don't know if you like the taste of butter but I sure don't and I wouldn't swap the two if you actually like the porkfat.  Personally I really really like the taste of pork fat as well so there's another reason I support it.  Try to find 'organic' pigs that are treated and fed right but don't worry if pig fat is your only option.  It's not cooked so it's fine by me.  I mean you really don't know if something is done right unless you do it yourself, eh?

[JaX]

Maybe detrimental but not non-paleo.  I would stick to the pork fat if I were you.  I don't know if you like the taste of butter but I sure don't and I wouldn't swap the two if you actually like the porkfat.  Personally I really really like the taste of pork fat as well so there's another reason I support it.  Try to find 'organic' pigs that are treated and fed right but don't worry if pig fat is your only option.  It's not cooked so it's fine by me.  I mean you really don't know if something is done right unless you do it yourself, eh?

I actually like the taste of butter like I like the taste of any fat, but the problem is, I have tested eating a lot of pasteurized organic butter (all the fat I need in one day, which amounts to around 1/4-1/2 pound of butter) and I have found that I feel bloated, and my heart beats very fast and I have insomnia. I have tested this for several days and it seems to be the same: bloat, insomnia, heart beating fast. When I just change the butter to raw pork fat, and leave all other foods the same, I don't experience those things.

I'm really puzzled why butter does these things to me. I mean butter doesn't contain lactose/milk protein since it's almost only fat.. WHY does that bloat me? Maybe it's a small amount of lactose/milk proteins that is enough to affect me. I'm really curious to see if raw butter will have the same effect.

It is true that it's hard to trust many health foods today... My butcher says he has some organic pork meat but since he also carries non organic/conventional, it is hard to trust his word when he says that he cut that piece from the organic one and not the conventional. The terms "organic", "pesticide free" and "grassfed" are actually very loose terms. I'm starting to see more and more restaurants offering dishes containing "organic" and "grassed" ingredients. Those have to be terms only added to attract people who know very little of what organic is (the majority of people). I don't believe in those terms anymore and I'm always looking for the USDA Certified Organic sign.

[donrad]

I don't have time to go into detail now, but pork in this country is not good. The reason some religions say no to pork is that the animals are raised in pens and the eat their own feces ( been there, seen it, raised them). They get a lot of parasites that can be transmitted to humans and is why the government recommends cooking well done. Most of the small farmers and ranchers were put out of business a few years back by these huge factory producers that raise the hogs in slotted concrete floored warehouses where they never see the light of day. The manure is washed out into lagoons, so the parasite problem is eliminated. However the hogs are fed corn and soy products which gives them a terrible lipid (fat) profile, as someone mentioned. The omega 6 to omega 3 ratio is way bad. Please don't eat a lot of grains or soy and don't eat animals raised on grains and soy - our Paleo ancestors did not ever ever.

Avocados, nuts, small seeds, fish oils, dark leafy greens and pasture raised animals.

Oils and fats are both called lipids. The only difference is their melting point. We need them both. Lipids are made up of fatty acids as the building blocks. Our paleo ancestors got an omega 6 to omega 3 ratio of fatty acids in the range of about 2 to 1. Eating grains and grain fed gives you a ratio of about 20 to one. The omega 3's are more flexible molecules which makes your cells more flexible and porous so they can communicate with each other better and don't get hard. There are many other health benefits of good lipid profiles.

This was quick, please correct me if i'm wrong.

[TylerDurden]

Plenty of people are hypersensitive to the proteins in butter. The trouble is that several people  in the raf world have frequently claimed, quite wrongly, that either raw butter or ghee is free of all lactose and casein which just isn't true.

[Satya]

Okay, so first, Seeker, you say you don't like the taste of suet and prefer the taste of pork fat (post #1 of this thread).  Next post comes the trick question, false dichotomy, or whatever you want to call it:  Which would you choose, pork or butter fat?  Then you say you can only rarely get suet!  From the original post, it doesn't seem like you even want to eat that, which is, of course, fine, it's your life. 

For the life of me, I cannot imagine that the 2 sole sources of animal fats are crappy feed lot pork fat or organic heat-treated butter.  Beef bone marrow can be found from any butcher in any US state, and would be far superior to those other 2 choices.  Marrow is beautiful, nerve sooting, satisfying fat, and I believe the creamier variety comes from the shank (Tyler would know more on this).  Even grain-fed beef marrow would be superior in nutrients to extra-muscular pork fat.  So it appears, on the face anyway, that you would like justification from the group for this personal choice.  But then again, I could be wrong and intend to offer nothing but constructive ideas.

Donrad offers some good info on pigs.  And really, the reason so many parasite and pig diseases can be transmitted to humans is because we are genetically similar to them.  I can get pasture raised pork products from a very reputable source, but still I should not consume it often.  Beef, sheep and bison are really the best land animal fats and proteins for health.

Tyler offers good info on dairy.  He stands firm on dairy and is such an inspiration to someone like me who lapses on occasion to the addictive opioids in dairy.  Casein and lactose are in butter.  You can melt butter for 30 minutes on low and you will be left with the glue-like milk compounds on the bottom.  Ghee will have less, but it is heated even more than the pasteurized butter, and no maker of ghee guarantees casein, lactose free ghee last I checked.

I hope you can find a different option than those 2 choices.

[Sully]

If you had to choose between these two sources of fat, which would you choose:

1) PASTEURIZED Organic Butter

2) RAW Grain-fed Pork Fat

Well, organic doesn't necessarily mean pastured... because they could be grain finished like most certified organic foods.
If its 100% pastured butter, then I choose that. Otherwise, I would choose the pig fat if the butter was from a grain finished animal.

Pastured butter should be yellowish in color and not white.