I'm concerned about you guys in the USA...

[goodsamaritan]

I've been monitoring my truth sources on the internet and it seems 2009 is the time of collapse.

http://www.trendsresearch.com/journal.html

The Collapse of '09
     The “Panic of ‘08” will be followed by “The Collapse of ‘09.” In 2008, when the world’s largest financial firms and equity markets crumbled, Wall Street’s woes preoccupied the media. In 2009, the focus will broaden to include a range of calamities that will leave no sector unscathed.....

The Revolution
     It’s unprecedented. There is nothing like it in the history of the United States. No week goes by without the Government buying into or buying up another failing “too big to fail” using taxpayer money. In the process, a super-race of corporate giants is being created that will be declared “too big to tumble.” It is a matter of historical fact: When people are homeless, helpless, desperate, jobless and hungry, sooner or later they will rebel. And it won’t be any different in America.....

Economic Slim-Fast
     Like it or not, Americans are going on a diet: a spending diet and a food diet. Staying fit and living frugally was a mainstay of pre-World War II America, and it will be a major defining trend of 21st century America.....

The Greatest Depression
While we alone predicted the “Panic of ’08” (and even took out the domain name “Panicof08.com” on November 7, 2007), we are not alone in predicting a Depression. The “D” word is being uttered – in some cases by those who have the most to lose and whose best interests are not served by spreading gloom and doom.....

Listen to the podcast at http://www.oneradionetwork.com/content/view/734/134/

Scary... Celente bets February / March 2009 is collapse time.  That early. 

I have relatives in the USA.  California will be issuing IOUs beginning Feb 01, 2009.  It's already happening.

Care to share any plans, what you plan to do to survive the possible collapse, economic disruption, rioting?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46MEqEgdLTg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjvbm3pOYFo

[Raw Kyle]

I did want to move out of the country eventually but don't have the money I would want to do that at this time. Hopefully things don't get to a point where I can't accomplish that anymore.

The bail outs are bs but in my life nothing has really changed because of the recession. The most noticeable thing is that houses are more affordable to me and the radio and TV are talking about it all the time.

[Satya]

Life is great here in Texas for me and mine.  I wrote about this when Tyler brought it up months ago here:

http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/off-topic/it%27s-the-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it-and-i-feel-fine/msg6196/#msg6196

Basically, many people here in the US were living lives that they could not afford with huge houses and fancy cars, and now is the time of reckoning for them.  States that had huge housing booms (like California) are now going bust due to incompetent leadership.  Texas has none of these problems, although the slowdown is starting to affect state budgets some.  So it depends on what you do for a living, where you live and how much debt you are in.  And I still stand by what I said in the message above (especially since I was so spot on in my forecast).

And, I got some nice big bookshelves to hold my bookies.  I love books.  I also got a nice HD projector with a 7 foot screen for a great price.  Oh, and a Persian rug at 1/3 of the normal prices.  I hardly ever spend money on such things, but I decided to help the economy this winter. 

[TheWayCreatesTheWarrior]

its called Predictive Programming: tell the people how to react to the scenes in the movie.
fake scare(fake-fake, or fake-real), hope the people riot, then force more restrictions.

FOX is the only word thats numerically 666.

someone should ask Obama why hes creating a Civil Disobedience Army(Mandatory Community Service), why is he preparing for people to riot in the streets?

[primaD]

its called Predictive Programming: tell the people how to react to the scenes in the movie.

Basically, many people here in the US were living lives that they could not afford with huge houses and fancy cars, and now is the time of reckoning for them.

Amen to both of you guy/gal.  I was one of those people.  Not necessarily living beyond my means but I got caught up in the housing market rush.  Because I was making over $50K a year, everyone that I worked with had multiple houses and they kept trying to get me to follow suit.  Eventually I succumbed.  I ended up buying three homes. (total cost = almost $600,000)  What I dumb mistake.  I thought that rent would take care of the payments but nope.  The recession hit and now all three of my properties are in the process of being repossessed including my car since I used it as collateral for a loan.  I'll probably have to file bankruptcy and start over but it's ok.  Live and learn.  Lessons learned.  Albeit the hard way.     (that's why I have parents to fall back on )

[wodgina]

the US banks gave a 23yr old on 50 grand a year $600000 worth of loans!? Wow! I'm struggling to get my head around it. No wonder were in the shit.  Good to hear your not blaming anyone.

[goodsamaritan]

the US banks gave a 23yr old on 50 grand a year $600000 worth of loans!? Wow! I'm struggling to get my head around it. No wonder were in the shit.  Good to hear your not blaming anyone.

Wow, if the banks in my country gave those kinds of loans away I'd be expanding into business ventures left and right.

[Satya]

This is great!  I am only posting an excerpt, you must visit the site to recite the entire credo.

http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2009/01/credo-in.html
I believe in America's almighty financial geniuses and monetary officials, who destroy wealth indiscriminately and indefinitely, and whose kingdom shall have no end. It is divine justice that those who cause financial catastrophes are rewarded with public money, while innocent bystanders are punished in their stead. I believe that central banks can print all the money anyone will ever need. I believe that if one stimulus package does not work, the next one surely will.

I believe in the redeeming power of financial complexity. I believe that hedge funds and sovereign wealth funds are righteous to enter into incomprehensible contracts having convoluted ownership and no inherent value. And I believe that opaque, secretive companies which pretend to insure those investments are offering a valuable service, even if this requires the use of public money.

[Dan]

Actually about 10% of my money was in an IRA, just in case this didn't happen.  Now I only wish I would have put more money in PMs, and sooner.

To me, collapse and/or oppression seem to be on the way.  At least those are the signs I've been reading for 4 or 5 years, and so far everything is going as I thought it would (I was just afraid to say anything, I got looks  )

I could care less, except that I am certain that the government will get more oppressive.  I'd be happy as long as we can just avoid a Hitler/Stalin/Lincoln.  We already have a Roosevelt (minus the internment camps).

[Iguana]

To me, collapse and/or oppression seem to be on the way. 

And not only in the USA !

Warning: Oil supplies are running out fast

Catastrophic shortfalls threaten economic recovery, says world's top energy economist
By Steve Connor, Science Editor
Monday, 3 August 2009

The world is heading for a catastrophic energy crunch that could cripple a global economic recovery because most of the major oil fields in the world have passed their peak production, a leading energy economist has warned.

Higher oil prices brought on by a rapid increase in demand and a stagnation, or even decline, in supply could blow any recovery off course, said Dr Fatih Birol, the chief economist at the respected International Energy Agency (IEA) in Paris, which is charged with the task of assessing future energy supplies by OECD countries.

See the whole article here:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/warning-oil-supplies-are-running-out-fast-1766585.html

According to my own research, peak oil could well be now, neither in 2030 nor in 2020. Thus the outlook would be even worse than described by F Birol.

Cheers
Francois

[TylerDurden]

Trouble is they've been predicting the imminent  collapse of oil for years now and it's never happened. There are always new oil-fields turning up(such as recent Arctic finds) plus new methods of getting inferior quality oil cheaper, and now there are electric cars and new improved solar energy cells etc. So, civilisation won't collapse.

[goodsamaritan]

My past research led me to believe that peak oil is fake, propaganda to drive up the price of oil to prop up the US dollar.

[Iguana]

Trouble is they've been predicting the imminent  collapse of oil for years now and it's never happened. There are always new oil-fields turning up(such as recent Arctic finds) plus new methods of getting inferior quality oil cheaper, and now there are electric cars and new improved solar energy cells etc. So, civilisation won't collapse.

Every civilisation collapses over time and ours certainly will, probably during our lifetime.

The fact that there were previous forecasts of peak oil which subsequently proved inaccurate does not imply that peak is not imminent - quite the opposite, it seems to me. To confine itself as a pessimist or an optimist isn't rewarding : it is preferable to be documented as much as possible and consider the situation objectively.

From another forum :
Even the head of the IEA previously debunking it at every possible juncture now warning about peak oil. Not to mention Mr Birol's paymasters will not be happy with this at all, he has most likely put his head on the block to warn the world of impending serious issues. Alas it will be to no avail sinply because it is politically impossible to sell anything akin to the measures required to mitigate the peak oil threat.

He has changed his mind because the IEA took the time and effort to compile data relating to the sources of 75% of current production and the results are as expected. The IEA is simply following in the footsteps of Simmons et al... Once a proper study is performed the same results are revealed.

Amongst a overwhelming mass of info, I advise you to consult the Hirsh report
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirsch_report
Simmons news
http://www.simmonsco-intl.com/research.aspx?Type=news
and The Oil Drum http://www.theoildrum.com/

It takes some 15 years to renew the world's almost one billion motor vehicles and electricity is not a primary source of energy, just an energy vector.

Cheers
Francois
 

[Iguana]

My past research led me to believe that peak oil is fake, propaganda to drive up the price of oil to prop up the US dollar.

I'm afraid your were misled. I provided 3 links in my above answer to Tyler. I'll be interested to have a read at your sources.

Cheers
Francois 

[SkinnyDevil]

Yawn....

I'm old enough to have read this sort of doom & gloom crap for a very long time. From biblical apocalyptica to economic apocalyptica to environmental apocalyptica....

YES, we have some idiots in power with voodoo economics (in the sense that their ideologies drive their economic policy rather than hard data - in fact, it is often in blatant opposition to the data) and their foolish welfare plans (whether it's corporate welfare in the form of bail-outs and subsidies or individual welfare n the form of useless stimulus packages and increased social safety nets)...and there will be a reckoning. It will happen when the dollar continues to devalue, robbing people of their savings & their earnings, and perhaps even collapses.

So what?

Will it suck? Sure. Will it be hard? Sure. Will the entire country collapse? No.

Remember "Future Shock" or "Entropy"? They were wrong then (we're still here) and they're wrong now (8 months in to 2009 and we still aren't seeing rich businessmen leaping from tall buildings or the unwashed masses carrying torches & pitchforks to the White House &/or Wall Street).

This is not to say we should ignore economic problems (or environmental problems or whatever). We should still work for positive change. We should still fight to educate our fellow man. But the pessimistic approach of "the sky is falling" is silly and counter-productive and ignores key facts like the human ability to innovate and to adapt.

The glass is half full.

[Iguana]

I'm old enough to have read this sort of doom & gloom crap for a very long time.

What is crap ? The pages I provided the links for ? Did you at least have a look at it ? What is for you  “a very long time” ? 20 years ? 200’000 years ? 2’000’000 years ?

Will the entire country collapse? No.

Of course it will. Every country, every empire collapses one day. Only the fireless paleolithic lifestyle was perhaps sustainable.

But the pessimistic approach of "the sky is falling" is silly and counter-productive and ignores key facts like the human ability to innovate and to adapt.

I said it’s useless to be either pessimistic or optimistic.

Sure, some will adapt - the hard way. 

Cheers
Francois

[SkinnyDevil]

What is crap ? The pages I provided the links for ? Did you at least have a look at it ? What is for you  “a very long time” ? 20 years ? 200’000 years ? 2’000’000 years ?

My comments were not directed specifically at you (or the links you provide). I was referencing the original post as well as the general mood of such reports.

Please note that I also said "...This is not to say we should ignore economic problems (or environmental problems or whatever). We should still work for positive change. We should still fight to educate our fellow man...."

Of course it will. Every country, every empire collapses one day. Only the fireless paleolithic lifestyle was perhaps sustainable.

The fireless paleo lifestyle collapsed. QED.

Sure, some will adapt - the hard way. 

I agree, which is why I specifically said "...there will be a reckoning. It will happen when the dollar continues to devalue, robbing people of their savings & their earnings, and perhaps even collapses. So what? Will it suck? Sure. Will it be hard? Sure...."

But I stand by my other statements, too - like the comments on "Future Shock" and "Entropy".

[William]

Civilization has alread collapsed.

In Toronto (Canada was reported to be the second most boring country on earth, read peaceful), a teenaged girl was accidentally shot dead in the centre of town, in public. Somewhere in France, a young woman was raped in public transport.
This is the behaviour of savages.

IMHO civilization is created by individuals/families/extended families/clans/nations and it is constant and presently more corrupt than it used to be.

"The more things change, the more they remain the same" - sounds better in the original French, but I've forgotten how to spell it.

[goodsamaritan]

I'm afraid your were misled. I provided 3 links in my above answer to Tyler. I'll be interested to have a read at your sources.

Cheers
Francois 

http://www.rense.com/general75/zoil.htm
Russia Proves 'Peak Oil' Is A Misleading Zionist Scam

And Russia is the #1 producer of oil because they have the technology to dig deep enough.  And the russian oil diggers do not believe in the fairy tale of "fossil fuels".  Oil is abiotic, it is created under the earth. 

I'm not a fan of pollution from burning oil.

Free energy and massively energy saving devices are here, ready in the present, the next in line to be mass produced.  Just as the energy saving lamps took the world by storm and replaced the incandescent, new motors like keppe motor that consume 90% less power will sweep away old electric motor designs.  Then there is energy from the vacuum that was proven recently by a german scientist.  These are exciting times.

As to the original topic, it's just a monetary disruption that will happen.  I'm concerned a good number of friends and relatives live in the USA.

The USA disrupted oil production in Iraq and now loots Iraqi oil.  The USA is pissed off at Iran for trading its oil in non-dollars and setting up its own oil bourse.  Which of course affects the US dollar's stability as the reserve currency of the world.

[SkinnyDevil]

Which of course affects the US dollar's stability as the reserve currency of the world.

Actually, what effects the dollar's stability is constant borrowing, fiscal irresponsibility, printing more on a whim, toying with interest rates by the Fed, and lack of a a commodity currency in favor of fiat currency.

I could go on for hours about this one.

[Iguana]

http://www.rense.com/general75/zoil.htm
Russia Proves 'Peak Oil' Is A Misleading Zionist Scam

And Russia is the #1 producer of oil because they have the technology to dig deep enough.  And the russian oil diggers do not believe in the fairy tale of "fossil fuels".  Oil is abiotic, it is created under the earth. 

I'm not a fan of pollution from burning oil.

Free energy and massively energy saving devices are here, ready in the present, the next in line to be mass produced.  Just as the energy saving lamps took the world by storm and replaced the incandescent, new motors like keppe motor that consume 90% less power will sweep away old electric motor designs.  Then there is energy from the vacuum that was proven recently by a german scientist.  These are exciting times.

As to the original topic, it's just a monetary disruption that will happen. 

Nope ! Oh, Goodsamaritan, you give me some work !

 “Abiotic oil” or “Abiogenic petroleum origin » is a fanciful theory. Have a look here :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin

Abiogenic petroleum origin is an alternative hypothesis to the prevailing biological origin theory of petroleum origins. Most popular in Russia and Ukraine between the 1950s and 1980s, the abiogenic hypothesis has little support among contemporary petroleum geologists, who argue that abiogenic petroleum does not exist in significant amounts and that there is no indication that an application of the hypothesis is or has ever been of commercial value. (...)

Concerning Russian oil production :
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080630/112588109.html

MOSCOW, June 30 (RIA Novosti) - Russia's crude oil exports fell by an estimated 5.3%, year-on-year, in January-May 2008 to 103.3 million metric tons (757 million barrels), the Economic Development Ministry said Monday on its web site.
The decline was due to lower crude output and increased supplies to domestic refiners, the ministry said.
(...)
Exhausted and watered oil wells, delays in the commissioning of new deposits and reduced incentives for oil companies to boost crude production due to the heavy tax burden resulting from high world oil prices were the main factors behind decreased production, the ministry said.

There’s no such thing as free energy ! You cannot get more energy out of a machine than what is introduced in - and even an efficiency of 1 (same output than input) is impossible ! That would be perpetual motion :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion

Perpetual motion violates either the first law of thermodynamics, the second law of thermodynamics, or both. The first law of thermodynamics is essentially a statement of conservation of energy. The second law can be phrased in several different ways, the most intuitive of which is that heat flows spontaneously from hotter to colder places; the most well known statement is that entropy tends to increase, or at the least stay the same (…)

Cheers
Francois

[Iguana]

Please note that I also said "...This is not to say we should ignore economic problems (or environmental problems or whatever). We should still work for positive change. We should still fight to educate our fellow man...."

There’s not only environmental and economic problems, but also a dreadful energy problem.

Any energy used by our various types of engines (except that produced in our nuclear power plants) comes initially from the thermonuclear reactions of fusion of hydrogen into helium in the solar core.

To provide us a work, the flow of energy coming from the sun can go trough  different stages : mechanical (winds, marine and river currents, waterfalls… resulting from the Earth heat and climatic engine), chemical, electric or thermal. Initially and during a very long time, only algae and phytoplankton, then since some 450 million years the terrestrial plants also, collected solar energy in chemical form by photosynthesis. It is this energy which makes it possible to synthesize everything that living organisms and their predatory need and which is the engine of the essential part of the life on Earth. The plants reduce the CO2 of the atmosphere on one hand and H2O on the other hand by fixing carbon and hydrogen in the form of organic matter while releasing  oxygen in gaseous form.

During a few geological periods, 100 or 150 million years ago, part of this organic matter did not have enough time to be consumed by the predators and be then recycled in carbonic gas and water by breathing. In result of geological events, it was slowly accumulated, transformed and fossilized into oil and coal, which constitute extremely concentrated fuels: we have to burn 3 to 5 kg of wood to provide as much heat than produced by the combustion a single kg of oil refined in gasoline, fuel/diesel oil or kerosene. This energy corresponds roughly to the mechanical work provided by a score of hard workers during one day, for example 20 oarsmen on a Roman galley!

It has taken about 24 tons of fossilized organic matter to generate the one and half kg of oil needed to produce 1 kg of fuel oil or gasoline.

The world consumes actually about 86 millions barrels of crude oil every single day, which corresponds roughly to the contents of 43 supertankers of 2 millions barrels each. Alternative energy sources are just peanuts in comparison.

Crude oil is not only necessary for transportation, but also for agriculture (fertilizers production, irrigation, tractors and machines), industrial fishing, heating, industrial production and almost every activity of our civilization. It has permitted a tremendous population growth, to the point that the planet could never nourish a population of 6.5 billions without the extremely concentrated, cheap and convenient energy provided by crude oil.   

The fireless paleo lifestyle collapsed. QED.

I don’t know whether the word “collapsed” is appropriate for a process slowly taking place during a few 100’000 years…

Cheers
Francois

[goodsamaritan]

“Abiotic oil” or “Abiogenic petroleum origin » is a fanciful theory. Have a look here :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin

Totally false wikipedia article.  Written by the superstitious "fossil fuel" guys.

Titan, moon of Saturn has lots of freely available hydrocarbons -- it probably does not come from "fossils".

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090129182514.htm

Oil deposits are being discovered routinely, better technology able to extract more oil from the same wells, the same wells being replenished.  In fact there is a big demand for engineers to work in the fields to dig out the oil.  Every 2 bit country can dig enough times and try to find oil for itself.  In our country we just got started. 

Give the diggers enough price incentive and they will dig more.  You merely mis-interpreted the russian news item.  It's just about how much it costs to dig deeper.  The russians aren't giving away their super deep drilling technology.  Maybe they are even funding the propaganda of the "fossil fuel" superstition.

----------------

Keppe Motor saves 90% energy compared to current electrical motors.  Ready for commercialization.  Kits available.  Books available.  Companies in mad scramble to commercialize.  Who's going to buy your future 1,500 watt airconditioner when someone will offer a 150 watt airconditioner?

http://www.myhealthblog.org/2009/06/30/energy-saving-keppe-motor-kit-shows-new-motor-technology-saves-90-electricity/

-----------------

Energy from the VACCUUM is real.  Just as the air is not empty.  Space is not empty.  Vaccuum is not empty of energy.
http://www.myhealthblog.org/2009/06/29/zero-point-energy-proven-and-repeatable-unleash-a-new-pollutionless-unlimited-source-of-energy/

Definite Proof for the Conversion of vacuum-energy into mechanical energy based on the Measurement of Machine Power
http://philica.com/display_article.php?article_id=155

Pure science foundation founded.

Engineers putting this into practice next.  "getting it."

Practical kits next.

Commercialization next.

------------------

The current fiat money system is just looking for an anchor.  If and when portable self electricity generators start popping up and replacing oil, where does the fiat money anchor itself?  These are interesting times.

[Iguana]

Totally false wikipedia article.  Written by the superstitious "fossil fuel" guys.

I think you're welcome to rewrite it according to your knowledge. 

Keppe Motor saves 90% energy compared to current electrical motors.  Ready for commercialization.  Kits available.  Books available.  Companies in mad scramble to commercialize.  Who's going to buy your future 1,500 watt airconditioner when someone will offer a 150 watt airconditioner?

Fore those uneducated guys which haven’t even ever heard of the famous Keppe Motor bound to save humanity and our planet, here it is - it's really well worth a read :
http://www.keppemotor.com/index.php

Our previously featured products, the Keppe Motor Manual 1.0 and the Keppe Motor KIT, introduced the new cutting-edge technology revealing the “New Disinverted Physics” as discovered by Norberto Keppe. These products explain and demonstrate the principles supporting the science and philosophy behind the “New Physics.”

Now, the Keppe Motor team has developed an actual power producing motor which uses 70 to 90% less energy than today's low power induction motors using traditional technology. The Keppe Motor 3.0 uses a fraction of the electrical energy necessary to operate traditional motors.

Develop yourself the revolucionary principle of the Keppe Motor for more powerful motors!

Following the successful launch of the Keppe Motor Manual, the STOP the Destruction Of The World Association announces the release of the Keppe Motor KIT.
The Keppe Motor uses five times less energy than a conventional electric motor because it harnesses scalar energy. STOP releases this technology to the world with the hope that interested individuals will contribute to its development.

In his landmark book, The New Physics, Dr. Norberto Keppe outlines the basis for a new physics that transcends the postulates of Newton and Einstein and even the proposals coming from the realm of quantum physics. Keppe’s book is a bold and prophetic re-thinking of the essential building blocks of science that promises to lead humanity to profoundly higher levels of technological and social development.

Keppe’s findings were the inspiration needed for STOP engineers Cesar Soos and Roberto Frascari to discover the method by which to capture the scalar energy perceived by Tesla (also refered to as essential or divine energy by Keppe), thereby side-stepping the traditional means used by all motors to this point.

The STOP the Destruction of the World Association was founded in Paris in 1992 by psychoanalyst and writer Cláudia Bernhardt de Souza Pacheco. Today, this vibrant organization is an international group devoted to the preservation of life and nature. We are not affiliated with or supported by any political, religious, or economic groups or interests.

STOP follows the scientific and philosophical orientation of psychoanalyst, philosopher and social scientist, Norberto R. Keppe, creator of Analytical Trilogy and author of over 30 books on psycho-socio-pathology. Dr. Keppe’s work provides a comprehensive overview and analysis of the psychological and social causes of the human being´s many problems, and the tools to solve them. The end result, then, is to vastly improve the quality of life, the society we live in and the planet as a whole.

Analytical Trilogy

Analytical Trilogy is a unique therapeutic methodology that studies the cause and treatment of psychopathology in both individuals and in our society. Analytical Trilogy was developed by Dr. Norberto Keppe, a world-renowned psychoanalyst,following his initial training in Vienna and more than 30 years of clinical research in Europe, the United States and Brazil. It is called "Trilogy" because it synthesizes psychotherapeutic science with the contributions of the great philosophical and spiritual thinkers, thereby unifying feeling, thought and action.

 

[goodsamaritan]

I think you're welcome to rewrite it according to your knowledge. 

Actually, no, we are not welcome to rewrite wikipedia according to our knowledge.  There are gate keepers, assigned editors.  And they will of course maintain the wiki entry as they like it.

I wasted my time picking a fight with the editor of eczema in wikipedia.  I had obscenely more personal knowledge from the bozos in the eczema wikipedia, they say "there is no cure for eczema", the usual medical mantra... No amount of my debating with my knowledge, my pictures, my work, my cures with other people and other people following the same cure principles will shake the editors of that entry.

That's the way things run in wikipedia.  Just like any "source", I take wiki articles with a grain of salt.  Tyler had his run in with wikipedia with the issues about raw foodism.