The Raw and the Cooked

[Projectile Vomit]

Here's an interesting reflection on a food blog site of last year's Vice article featuring Derek Nance (aka Sabertooth):

The Raw and the Cooked

I hope that the article offers food for thought.

[LePatron7]

This made me think it would be a good idea for a cooked section in the RPD forum. It would likely lead to a lot more exposure from the cooked paleo community. There could be some comment on the RPD.com website explaining we eat a raw diet, but I think if the two were integrated there would be more cooked paleo dieters trying to add in some raw animal foods and potentially switching over to a completely raw diet. Of course the cooked talk would have to stay in the cooked paleo diet section, but think about it.

If a cooked paleo dieter sees there's a community of paleo dieters eating a completely raw paleo diet. That we eat everything grass fed, wild, nothing cooked. I think a lot of cooked paleo dieters would be interested in signing up for the RPD forum, and potentially making some raw changes to their diet.

[TylerDurden]

We don't need such. There are already some people I know who consider themselves to be cooked-palaeodieters but who eat  either all-raw  or mostly all-raw. By contrast, I know plenty of people online who call themselves rawpalaeodieters but who eat either very little raw animal foods or  even none at all. Indeed, raw vegans have recently been using the "rawpaleo" label, for example.

I suppose if we ever got really big(someone needs to write a bestseller!) we could have a separate forum for raw vegans and one for cooked-palaeodieters, but, for now, it is not really necessary.

[LePatron7]

We don't need such. There are already some people I know who consider themselves to be cooked-palaeodieters but who eat  either all-raw  or mostly all-raw. By contrast, I know plenty of people online who call themselves rawpalaeodieters but who eat either very little raw animal foods or  even none at all. Indeed, raw vegans have recently been using the "rawpaleo" label, for example.

I suppose if we ever got really big(someone needs to write a bestseller!) we could have a separate forum for raw vegans and one for cooked-palaeodieters, but, for now, it is not really necessary.

I just think it would increase traffic. When people visit the page, they're likely to immediately get pressured into eating raw or shunned for eating a cooked diet. If there was a place where cooked paleo dieters could be part of a different paleo community with more information, I bet more would join. The pressure to have to switch to a raw diet likely deters a lot of people.

Here's a link with paleo sites and their traffic - http://paleohacks.com/questions/117043/here-are-paleo-website-traffic-rankings-thoughts.html

It's irrelevant to me though lol. I just think it's a great idea.

[Projectile Vomit]

If you want more interaction with folks who eat cooked paleo, you can sign up for some of the better websites. I've never posted at PaleoHacks, but do have an account at Mark's Daily Apple and visit the forum there occasionally. Although most of the people who post there aren't exclusively raw, I've noted my preferences for raw foods and have never been spoken down to. PaleoPhil also posts there occasionally.

I think one of the huge reasons why those sites are more popular, aside from their advocacy of a more mainstream diet, is the fact the forums themselves are much better moderated. Behavior exhibited by posters here, even by moderators, would quickly lead to them being banned at PaleoHacks or Mark's Daily Apple. Those forums, and others as well, hold posters to a higher standard, and thus attract people of a higher standard as contributors.

[TylerDurden]

I have looked at the cooked-palaeodiet forums many times  and, like GS, have found that most of them quickly die out or become moribund due to not being lively enough. They also tend to toe the line re dogma too much, so no one can question Taubes or Cordain or wheoever is the resident guru. Of course, the very fact that a cooked, palaeolithic diet is  far easier to get used to for a SAD-eater  than a raw, palaeolithic diet, means a cooked-palaeodiet group will  inevitably attract more  members, but that's all. So, there is no need for us to sacrifice our principles and lower the tone of this forum by copying others.

Another point is that most  of those who try a cooked, palaeolithic diet are none too interested in it and often end up transitioning to the next dietary fad. This is because the benefits of switching to a cooked, palaeodiet are not all that great. By contrast, those who switch to RVAF diets often end up sticking to them for life as a result of incredible healing that few people encounter on other diets.

[Projectile Vomit]

I have looked at the cooked-palaeodiet forums many times  and, like GS, have found that most of them quickly die out or become moribund due to not being lively enough...

Um, well, Mark's Daily Apple, where most of the contributors cook their meat, has been around quite a while and shows no signs of 'dying out'. It's ranked much more highly as far as internet forums go than is this website, with hundreds of contributors, hundreds of new posts every day and thousands upon thousands of threads. That's about as lively as it gets, as far as I know. Much more lively than this website, certainly. Unless, by 'lively', you mean people ranting at each other using crude, vulgar and even misogynistic language.

...the benefits of switching to a cooked, palaeodiet are not all that great. By contrast, those who switch to RVAF diets often end up sticking to them for life as a result of incredible healing that few people encounter on other diets.

Have you actually visited any of these sites lately? Plenty of success stories. I would say, based on what I've read, that posters on Mark's Daily Apple enjoy a higher success rate than those who come here. How many people who start a raw paleo diet actually stick with it for more than a few months? Worldwide, I'd bet no more than a dozen or two at the most, if we're honest.

And not to hold a cooked diet too highly, but it does offer some fringe benefits that make it easier to adopt, such as allowing its user to avoid being isolated by their dietary practices and ostracized from their families like some of the more devout members of this forum have been.

[goodsamaritan]

And not to hold a cooked diet too highly, but it does offer some fringe benefits that make it easier to adopt, such as allowing its user to avoid being isolated by their dietary practices and ostracized from their families like some of the more devout members of this forum have.

Eric,

Yes, we know about this "ostracized" thing... what I can read from your posts is you have not experienced being in a LIFE or DEATH situation where it is either you choose to eat raw bloody paleo diet or you DIE.

Yes, most will temporarily be on raw paleo diet  just until they get well, then go back to being sociable... nothing wrong with that.

Yes, some of us here can step down and be sociable and share meals with our friends or relatives sometimes... when we are already swimmingly well... you do not do that with people in their crisis situations.

I can accept that fact that RPD will never be as "popular" as cooked paleo diets.

Yes we have our place in the internet because people need to know this information to save their own butts when their own crisis time comes... when cooked paleo diets will not save them.

Yes, I had to isolate my own son for months on RAW paleo diet just so he can live, get well and grow up... he is on a mostly cooked paleo diet now.  Had to isolate a few other friends and family in shorter times to make them well via RPD.  So... they survived their temporary isolation.  You have to do what you have to do because you want to achieve something.

In my blogs I write somewhat that cooked paleo diet can work if you aren't man enough to do raw paleo diet... yet.  My own uncle chose chemo over raw meat and he died... as expected. 

I'm happy enough that the cooked paleo diet forums live on separately for now.

Maybe in the future there will come a time compelling enough to combine the two... or maybe I or some of us could contribute our energies to a cooked paleo diet forum as needed.

[goodsamaritan]

I think one of the huge reasons why those sites are more popular, aside from their advocacy of a more mainstream diet, is the fact the forums themselves are much better moderated. Behavior exhibited by posters here, even by moderators, would quickly lead to them being banned at PaleoHacks or Mark's Daily Apple. Those forums, and others as well, hold posters to a higher standard, and thus attract people of a higher standard as contributors.

I would agree with this observation.  We have been winging it with our own eccentric personalities and volunteer time.  This is a non-commercial endeavor. 

You could start a thread in the suggestions part how to better moderate forums for success.

[TylerDurden]

Um, well, Mark's Daily Apple, where most of the contributors cook their meat, has been around quite a while and shows no signs of 'dying out'. It's ranked much more highly as far as internet forums go than is this website, with hundreds of contributors, hundreds of new posts every day and thousands upon thousands of threads. That's about as lively as it gets, as far as I know. Much more lively than this website, certainly. Unless, by 'lively', you mean people ranting at each other using crude, vulgar and even misogynistic language.

  By "misogynistic" I presume you are referring to wodgina's "women" thread. That was quite harmless, and really just one member's view, more or less.  The whole point of GS's rawpaleoforum is that we allow people to express themselves freely. if we were to practice the sort of political correctness that you clearly want, we would quickly be killing off this forum, hardly an intelligent thing to do. Indeed, several cooked-palaeodiet forums have gone more or less bust precisely because they were too strict. I doubt therefore that any serious forum could function without allowing a wide variety in freedom of expression in its forums.

Have you actually visited any of these sites lately? Plenty of success stories. I would say, based on what I've read, that posters on Mark's Daily Apple enjoy a higher success rate than those who come here. How many people who start a raw paleo diet actually stick with it for more than a few months? Worldwide, I'd bet no more than a dozen or two at the most, if we're honest.

  This is, of course, pure  abject nonsense. I have read plenty of the success stories on various cooked-palaeodiet forums and they were almost always of a minor nature compared to the success stories mentioned by RVAFers in general(cooked-palaeos would report things like reducing a few symptoms of grains-related conditions like Crohn's etc.). This is hardly surprising as really difficult illnesses such as arthritis or alzheimer's or type 2 diabetes can hardly be healed with a cooked-palaeodiet  given that they are routinely linked to heat-created toxins such as advanced glycation end products  which are all too prevalent in a cooked-palaeodiet even one involving grassfed meats(some cooked-palaeodiet variations do not even promote consumption of grassfed meats!). By contrast, success stories on a RVAF diet often involve things like recovering from terminal illnesses. And, like I said before, while one sees whole families doing RVAF diets for decades, most cooked-palaeodieters are transient as they inevitably do not experience vast health benefits from going cooked-palaeo so they often switch to something else soon after.

And not to hold a cooked diet too highly, but it does offer some fringe benefits that make it easier to adopt, such as allowing its user to avoid being isolated by their dietary practices and ostracized from their families like some of the more devout members of this forum have been.

None of us are "devout" as we do not see this as a religion. And one does not need to be ostracised or isolated because of being rawpaleo. Most of us compromise by eating raw sashimi in restaurants or whatever without ever having to give up  on social contact with SAD-eaters etc.

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