So I have FROZEN grass-fed,antibiotic free but it's not good enoug?

[Sorentus]

This is so overwhelming and stressing me out, I have NO problem with eating raw meat, I love it and I am even letting my meat ferment to get it high meat but it's FROZEN food. I am extremely sick and I tried every diet out there and this is my last chance at healing. I don't have access to fresh grass-fed meat only frozen and having seen AV's comments on frozen meat, he make it sounds like it's just as bad as cooked food.

Should i just buy crappy FRESH sick animal from regular store contaminated with parasites and salmonella or stick to frozen grass-fed meat?

This is really overwhelming, can I ever heal from high quality frozen meat? I feel my only option is to just move to a new place NEXT to a grass-fed farm, which literally would be impossible at this point, am I doomed, what to do?!

And what about raw eggs? I could get raw pastured eggs but eggs make me very sick due to food intolerance/gut dysbiosis and leaky gut, you think raw  meat should be safe?

[nummi]

I tried frozen meat. I froze it myself, then unfroze it. Just to get to know the difference. I am never eating frozen meat again. It was that bad compared to the real thing. Although I dried some of it later and then I didn't notice as big a difference, compared to never frozen dried meat.

I don't think frozen meat is as bad as cooked, as the damage caused in the meat comes from frozen water that expands and destroys as a result. No new toxic substances are formed, unless they form from mechanical breaking. Cooking is far worse.
Then frozen animal fat shouldn't be that big an issue, as it doesn't have as much water in it as does meat.
Better frozen grass-fed than animal's raised in false conditions and on wrong diets.

There are farms everywhere, all kinds of animals really. At first glance it might seem like there's nothing, nowhere to get real meat from. They're sort of hidden, have to stumble onto them. Find a butcher or someone who deals with meat and ask them where to search for suppliers, as well a good place would be a farmers market or similar, just to get your nose in.
There should be farmers unions and such, contacting them should give leads. And hunters unions or such as well, to get leads on wild game.

Find a supplier of fresh quality meat, no matter how far from your home. Visit them once a month or so, if they are far away, and bring back a months worth of food, or more.

Eggs are one of the easiest and fastest to digest foods, and one of the most nutritious ones. With gut issues the easiest and fastest digestible foods should be the best option, they are metabolized fast so they stay in the gut the least. As a result healing should go faster. But individuals differ, so eggs might as well not be for everyone. Maybe you just need some time to adapt to raw eggs?
Fish are easy to digest too.
If you have problems with gut and digestion on cooked foods, and have actual serious damage caused while on that diet, then going raw is really the only option left. Removing the cause, or fixing the cause, will eventually remove the symptoms. Problems with digestion and gut are caused directly by false diet.

[TylerDurden]

Basically, all that freezing does is destroy the cell-membranes and thus  increase the speed of nutrient-loss once the meat is  thawed. Cooking not only adds many different  types of heat-created toxins but also destroys bacteria and enzymes as well as reducing water-content and lowering the nutrient-levels far more than freezing does.

[jessica]

Stick with the grass fed meat.   If you live in a place where it is difficult to source good quality goods, consider the other environmental factors that might be leading you towards ill health. It might be wise to consider moving at some point.

Do you eat the whole egg?  I would suggest trying just the yolk, if you haven't already, and seeing if that doesn't cause you any digestive issues.

I gotta admit my digestion took many years to heal, but through constant refinement its excellent and continues to improve!

Healing is a continual process.  You heal even when things don't work out if you are attuned to what lessons those experiences provide.  Even when you are feeling better you never give up on healing.  Its what we are made to do.

[Sorentus]

From AV's experience it seem like eating frozen meat would work to heal but takes much longer. I was listening to that interview where he said he fed frozen meat to animal and they just kept on looking sick but then when he fed them frozen raw dairy it took 5 months(might have been different animals). Then there was also this other thing about how it took 5 generations of good eating habit to reverse DNA damage in some animal.

Ever since I been on the diet (3 days) I feel significant pain in my colon, severe constipation like all my intestines are stuck, I had to use magnesium to get some relief but ever since eating  this morning it's back to pain again, I can barely down 1pound of meat a day due to all the abdominal spasms I'm getting. I hope that after a few days my body adapt as this is really painful, but at least it doesn't look like I am pregnant. My digestive issues are so bad that when I eat anything I look pregnant like a starving African kid, I really hope this diet works. I will be sticking to only meat and no fruits so far since anything gives me symptoms.

I also incubated myself with 40 hookworm 2 weeks ago and expecting a Fecal Transplant next weekend to help restore my gut flora, yeah I am pretty desperate at this point. SCD/GAPS/Elemental diet/Elimination Diet/Rotation diet/Nothing worked.

[sabertooth]

I have to have fresh meat to feel optimal... There seems to be something lacking in thawed meat, some vital life force which may not be easily quantifiable by nutritional science. With the exception of fat, I will freeze my suet and other fats to keep it longer, and there does not seem to be any negative effects as far as I can tell.

 Also beware of store bought grass fed, I have not been able to find any locally which taste very good. Many grass fed animals are fed sub quality hay, and are chemically dewormed. This is a cautionary warning I want to tell to all Newbees . The environment in many areas is polluted. Much of the grass fed beef that comes locally is grown near highways, coal power plants, tobacco farms. Many grass fed animals are raised in fields that have been over cut for hay, so animals who graze on depleted fields are lacking in crucial elements, and deficient animals will absorb more harmful elements like cadmium from the depleted soil.

Sad but true, Its hard to trust the grass fed label at the local grocery.

If you want the best quality you should go out to the farm yourself. I Butcher whole lambs I find on small family farms. There is a huge difference in quality from what I get and whats in the store. I drink the fresh blood and eat all the organs, so its important to me that I get paleo quality meat!

If you are ill, I would recommend finding a local farmer to sell you a small animal, butcher that animal and eat its organs, suet, intestinal fats and drink its blood while its at its peek freshness...

[White shark]

I do only eat frozen meat, i simply cant get grass fed or organic meat here, besides of the frozen. And its not even 100% grass fed. But i really cant lay restless at night, i just buy the best i can get, and thats good enough. And btw i really dont care if the meat has been frozen, i dont believe it matters, and im fine with it.

[eveheart]

As you become familiar with other available grass-fed beef sources, you might want to buy in bulk (whole muscles, not ground beef, steaks, or roasts) and learn how to store meat by hanging it in a refrigerator. There are threads on this forum that discuss how to do that.

Don't overlook fish and lamb, too. Often, I find fresh fish and lamb that haven't been through processing plants and frozen for sale.

My main beef source is a supermarket butcher department that buys a 1/2 grass-fed beef every week, and I give them special orders on how I want that meat cut for me.

Also, there is no need to try to eat a pound of meat every day if your body does not seem to want it.

Where are you located? Someone on this forum might be able to tell you about a source near you.

[sabertooth]

White Shark, it a pleasure to make your acquaintance..........

Its easy to forget that the world is large and depending on where you live it may be very well possible to get decent quality animal foods that are not labeled organic or grass fed, if so then great. I am speaking out from my experience within the heartland of America, having grown up in the working class wastelands. Things are much worse in the United States than many are aware of. This is the land of GMO, fed lots, growth hormones, chemical wormers, depleted soil, toxic pesticide, herbicides, ect......so when I warn of the questionable meat quality, it should be seen as a general warning that pertains primarily to the multitudes of people who are being fed toxic animals raised in the post industrial wastelands of the world!

As for frozen foods
I have eaten frozen food when no other food was available. I understand that not everyone is able to access permiculturaly raised pristine pasture animals. I simply advocate that for people who are ill, and are asking for my opinion, that whatever possible try to obtain the best quality animal foods possible. If you cant get pasture raised animals then I suggest you at least pay close attention to the taste of the meat you do receive, the taste can often reveal whether or not the animal was of good quality.

Also it should be made clear that...... It May not matter as much if you eat frozen meat if you are more omnivorous and eat a wider variety of plant foods that can provide you with many of the vital elements that may be lacking in frozen meats.

Personally I am 90 percent carnivorous so it may be more important for me to have fresh meat, than someone who eats much more vegetables.

[Sorentus]

As you become familiar with other available grass-fed beef sources, you might want to buy in bulk (whole muscles, not ground beef, steaks, or roasts) and learn how to store meat by hanging it in a refrigerator. There are threads on this forum that discuss how to do that.

Don't overlook fish and lamb, too. Often, I find fresh fish and lamb that haven't been through processing plants and frozen for sale.

My main beef source is a supermarket butcher department that buys a 1/2 grass-fed beef every week, and I give them special orders on how I want that meat cut for me.

Also, there is no need to try to eat a pound of meat every day if your body does not seem to want it.

Where are you located? Someone on this forum might be able to tell you about a source near you.

I'm going to try to add raw honey to see if this help, I don't see what else I could try beside raw meat because I cannot tolerate any other food without symptoms, fruits makes me bloated and I can't tolerate eggs at all, but I could try some raw I guess. I don't plan to go RZC or even Meat and honey only, I would very love to include fresh fruits but right now I felt sticking to raw meat would work best once some healing has been done I can move to fruits and veggie, I just find it extremely difficult because of all that clog in my whole body atm.

And btw, I live in Canada (Quebec) near Montreal.

[TylerDurden]

And btw, I live in Canada (Quebec) near Montreal.

http://www.eatwild.com/products/canada.html#top

[ys]

I do not find any difference what so ever between fresh and frozen, taste wise and how I feel.  Fresh and frozen meat/organs from the same animal taste exactly the same to me.

Also, if you cut out whole muscle wrapped in connective tissue like here http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/journals/the-butcher/msg114931/#msg114931 , when thawed, it does not leak at all, not even a single drop.

I throw my meat in the freezer unwrapped, the outer layers get dried up nicely and when I take it out it leaks very little.  After 5 years of eating raw meat, to me frozen is as good as fresh.

[Sorentus]

Well today I found a source of FRESH beef, ground and in cubes Although it is much more expensive then the frozen one.

Now I have 2 questions, the fresh meat is in a sealed plastic pack, so of course I removed the plastic bag and put it in a glass container to make high meat, but since it was already exposed to airtight plastic bag probably for a few days, is there any chance at botulism?

Now I also have ground beef that has been in a jar in the fridge for 3 days, it was frozen initially, one is already turning gray like it's cooked and the other is still looking somewhat fresh, both came from the same bag. I heard that high meat/aged meat from frozen meat rarely turn good but is it still beneficial to eat? That meat already looking gray after 3 days it's safety is concerning me, if it was fresh I wouldn't worry but since it was initially frozen I'm wondering if I should bother to eat it.

[A_Tribe_Called_Paleo]

Well today I found a source of FRESH beef, ground and in cubes Although it is much more expensive then the frozen one.

Now I have 2 questions, the fresh meat is in a sealed plastic pack, so of course I removed the plastic bag and put it in a glass container to make high meat, but since it was already exposed to airtight plastic bag probably for a few days, is there any chance at botulism?

Now I also have ground beef that has been in a jar in the fridge for 3 days, it was frozen initially, one is already turning gray like it's cooked and the other is still looking somewhat fresh, both came from the same bag. I heard that high meat/aged meat from frozen meat rarely turn good but is it still beneficial to eat? That meat already looking gray after 3 days it's safety is concerning me, if it was fresh I wouldn't worry but since it was initially frozen I'm wondering if I should bother to eat it.

You have some great questions here... I wish someone knowledgeable would take the time to answer them. IMO I wouldn't eat high meat made from frozen meat. Being air tight for a few days could be a problem, it gives time for bad bacteria to grow

[eveheart]

I wish someone knowledgeable would take the time to answer them. IMO I wouldn't eat high meat made from frozen meat. Being air tight for a few days could be a problem, it gives time for bad bacteria to grow

Actually, a dozen or replies here plus various similar discussions on other threads indicate that many people took the time to answer the OP.

However, most of the discussion revolves around people's opinions - you even gave your own opinion. Even if we got all "scientific" and measured the cell breakdown and bacterial growth of controlled samples of frozen vs never-frozen meat, I doubt if we would all come to the same conclusion.

I propose that a consensus is not desirable here - it would only lead to dogma. IMO, it's best to take everybody's input and form your own conclusions, which are subject to change, of course!

[ciervo-chaman]

i had simillar problem like you, everything i ate was making me look like pregnant (and i'm really skinny)

since I started to eat A LOT of fats and cuted definitely on fruits (or when eating fruits eating a really SMALL portion) the inflamation has been going down week after week, till now, that i'm enjoying for first time in my life having nice poop and no inflamation

for me, the best thing it worked was just keeping ALL raw, and eating slowly and in low quantity to see what foods were creating inflamation.

i ate a lot of raw honey during this transition time. mixed with meat and cream, or with eggs and cream. but it was too much honey for me, it was keeping me eating and eating even if i was not really hungry. really difficult to stop with honey.

actually eating eggs, cream, fermented milk (until the whey separates) meat and cow fat (grain finished...) olive oil, olives, nuts, sunflower, almonds.. sometimes plums (not more than 2)  and feeling good with my gut. hope this helps you.