Okay so should I try to include carbs in my diet?

[JeuneKoq]

Sorentus, out of curiosity, have you ever tried fasting? It seems to successfully help people with various health problems.
I might be wrong on this, but if you just can't digest anything properly, just don't...

[Sorentus]

Sorentus, out of curiosity, have you ever tried fasting? It seems to successfully help people with various health problems.
I might be wrong on this, but if you just can't digest anything properly, just don't...

While although starvation is not really going to allow me to live a healthy life, I did try to do a fast. I ended up quitting after 90hours because my shortness of breath was getting way too bad and I was very thirsty despite drinking only water, I am also severely underweight and malnourished from not absorbing what I eat properly.

[LePatron7]

I second Eveheart's recommendation - find foods that minimize or don't give you any symptoms, and make those your safe foods. Add other foods cautiously paying attention to symptoms.

[Iguana]

Yes, and start with a small, limited amount,  preferably without eating any other food at the same meal.

[Pammie]

A friend of mine said that she read where you need to have carbs or more over potatoes in your diet so you can produce insulin.  Anyone else heard this before?

[PaleoPhil]

She may be referring to the "physiological insulin resistance" that can occur with excessive chronic VLC.

An MD who goes by the handle "Spanish Caravan" wrote about it:

"Physiological Insulin Resistatnce (PIR) results from glucose deficiency the same way mucin deficiency induces dry eyes, nostrils, colon and anemia like symptoms. They’re both ways of preserving glucose for your brain.

When you VLC, your muscles become insulin resistant to preserve your glucose for the brain. So while your muscles are running on fatty acids, they become insulin resistant. This leaves glucose for your brain but the net result is your BG going up as you’re “physiologically” insulin resistant. There doesn’t really seem to a problem with this state, as there is with mucin deficiency; it’s not known to induce diabetes or make prediabetics diabetic. At least not according to those who advocate VLCing. I have a feeling however, that this is a disease-prone state. ....

Why is it disease-prone? Because high serum free fatty acids are implicated in various disease states, especially immune related (and also diabetes in some cases). High serum FFA and very low trigs that we see among those who VLC are associated with nascent autoimmunity, especially rheumatic autoimmunity.

Read more at "Long Term Very Low Carb and Ketogenic Diets = Bad News"
http://freetheanimal.com/2014/02/ketogenic-diets-news.html

Fasting blood glucose that is often > 90 mg/dl and post-meal BG often > 160 after eating carbs (often with both avg's gradually increasing over time) are some common symptoms of PIR.

[Alive]

If I  don't have carbs then my sweat smells of fat, with a few carbs I smell better, so for me the carbs help to process fat. Still I mostly have low carb fruits and vege (plus am trialling potato starch powder).

[edmon171]

I've been doing ZC for years, I never felt unsatisfied. Once you adapt to the ketosis the cravings disappear on their own and you won't be hungry in general unless you see food or don't eat for a day. Two things help me feel extra satisfied are lots of animal fat and not cooking the food at all. IMO your body can better detect the nutritional content of what you eat when it is raw and will start sending you "full" signals much sooner. With cooked food, even lightly cooked, I stay hungry until I'm literally full and my stomach is stretched. Also ZC doesn't need to be absolute zero. I think the important point is to be zero plant foods. You can get a good deal of carbs from eggs and liver and it is in the form of glucose and glycogen. This won't trigger the same hormonal cascade as when you ingest sucrose, fructose, or polysaccharides. It is much harder to break ketosis and trigger cravings on animal products alone. I doubt it is even possible without huge amounts of milk.

[jessica]

edmon what is your health background?  what was your healthy, weight, etc when you went VLC? what is your lifestyle? physical activity level?  what is your ethnic background?  do you think that these things might influence the way the body reacts to VLC? 

I think from everyone experience on the mb that there is no one way to eat that suites every body, and that most people should be sensitive first to their own experience and instincts, history of health and current level of health and then also to environmental factors such as community immediate living situation and lifestyle and toxin load that revolve around those two things, seasonally appropriate diet and food choices, availability of food sources, and also physical activity level and caloric requirements.

[edmon171]

Jessica, I am caucasian with family from Armenia and Bulgaria. Right now I lift weights once or twice a week, no cardio, but that was not the case for many years. I've been morbidly obese since the age of four. I started doing Atkins induction at 280 when I was 10 and switched to ZC at 400 when I was 23. I used to suffer carb cravings and hunger on Atkins because I never ate any fruits or vegetables and would try to get my 20g from grains, starches and sugar. This was the main reason for starting ZC, also I hoped it would get me past plateaus without having to reduce fat or protein (it didn't). Basically, given my previous diet of only meat, dairy, grains, starches, and sugar, doing paleo and doing ZC were one and the same. My lifestyle is healthy right now, though not perfect. I used to smoke and was into partying a lot. Surely, I would be type 2 diabetic like most of my family were it not for VLC. So ZC is definitely something that suits me for unique reasons but I am a firm believer in ketosis as a superior metabolic state. I also recently started doing weekly 100 hr water fasts to get my weight under 275 (im now under 250 for the first time in 18 yrs). I tried doing IF every other day as well as calorie restriction but both of these drove me insane.  I'm not worried about muscle loss from the fasting because I was well adapted to ketosis before starting and I stay ketogenic during my feeding days. I actually got the idea to try this by researching the feeding pattern of lions after a large kill that took 2-3 days to eat. I hope I didn't spam this thread with too much about me, but thanks for asking.