No milk

[Pammie]

Why can you not have milk on the paleo diet?  I know that it is stuff that the cavemen lived off, but I am really worried about my calcium.

[TylerDurden]

No, cavemen never lived off milk, raw or otherwise.

[paper_clips43]

I think she meant paleo diet is what the caveman lived off as in no milk allowed and since she is following paleo diet she believes in abstaining from milk.

If you really don't want to add milk to your diet other calcium sources are:
Egg shell powder (home made is really easy)
Oyster shell powder
Pearl powder (http://gonegreenstore.com/dragon-herbs-pearl-powder)

Most of those are primarily calcium carbonate and could probably be good to limit to 500-1000 mg a day.

Probably a good calcium supplement could be
calcium glucarate.

[edmon171]

I think raw meat has sufficient good calcium in it, especially the cartilage and connective tissues. There should be no need for dairy. I would be much more concerned about avoiding foods that leach calcium from your body such as beans and vegetables.

[raw-al]

Why can you not have milk on the paleo diet?  I know that it is stuff that the cavemen lived off, but I am really worried about my calcium.

We love milk, drink lots of it however as a source of calcium.... not sure and that always stirs up a war here so go to this section http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/primal-diet/

However to answer your question, the proper way to get calcium is to get as much sun on your body as you can without getting a burn. The sun does it's work to make the calcium available in the area where you get sun to skin connection. You don't indicate where you live so not sure what time of year it is.

I suspect that raw meat will get you plenty of calcium, but something that gets lost in discussing calcium is physical activity. It is necessary to move nutrition around no matter what nutrients we are talking about. Even going for a regular walk in the evening or after a meal will do wonders for your health etc.

[goodsamaritan]

Why can you not have milk on the paleo diet?  I know that it is stuff that the cavemen lived off, but I am really worried about my calcium.

No need to worry about calcium.  You will get that from your raw animal food.

Worry about your magnesium sources, visit the beach regularly or get some magnesium oil on your skin if you cannot.

Raw Milk products can be beneficial if you are not allergic to them and follow Aajonus Vonderplanitz' Primal Diet (in the Primal Diet forum here, you must read / buy his books).

I did my personal raw milk experiments and I gave up on raw milk - I am allergic to raw milk / cannot digest raw milk properly.  Raw butter seems good for me... but I have problems sourcing raw butter in my country.  Raw cheese seems good for me as Aajonus describes it, I invested in imported raw cheese, it's good tasting, be careful of constipation if you eat too much, there is the vitamin K2 benefit for certain cheeses like Brie and Gouda.  I havent been buying anymore for a few months, seems I've eaten too much cheese during my experiments.  Maybe in the future again.

When my son's intestines were wrecked due to diverticulitis at 11 yrs old, 6 months of raw paleo diet healed him plus 3 months of raw cow milk fast at the end helped fully form his stools for that perfect look.  He doesn't drink raw milk anymore, he's almost 13.  Probably had too much already and not looking for it. 

[meatbeater]

 Are you worried about bone health/density ?   It has been proven that bone density is directly proportional to the amount of stress put on the bone.  Not saying we don't need calcium but there are more important factors then mega dosing calcium.  Meat and greens provide plenty.  When astronauts are away from the gravitational pull of earth their bones get weak even when taking lots of the most absorb able calcium on earth. I think NASA gets the calcium from dirt.

[NinjaNight]

Why can you not have milk on the paleo diet?  I know that it is stuff that the cavemen lived off, but I am really worried about my calcium.

Do not worry about missing calcium from not drinking milk at all! In fact, the truth is the opposite of what you think.

Milk is a really bad choice for obtaining calcium, and is actually one of the leading causes of osteoporosis. This is in part due to the fact that the casein protein in milk blocks calcium absorption. That is why vitamin D is added - it's an attempt to compensate for this blocking action. Though the dairy industry usually uses the cheaper vitamin D2, which is biologically inactive. The highly absorbed phosphorus in milk leads to a release of parathyroid hormone, which further breaks down bone. Then there is the protein and sugars in milk that form bone destroying acids. This is why the US has the highest osteoporosis rate and is the largest consumer of milk in the world. The US is followed by Finland, who has the second highest osteoporosis rate, and is the second largest consumer of milk in the world.

[raw-al]

Do not worry about missing calcium from not drinking milk at all! In fact, the truth is the opposite of what you think.

Milk is a really bad choice for obtaining calcium, and is actually one of the leading causes of osteoporosis. This is in part due to the fact that the casein protein in milk blocks calcium absorption. That is why vitmain D is added - it's an attempt to compensate for this blocking action. Though the dairy industry usually uses the cheaper vitamin D2, which is biologically inactive. The highly absorbed phosphorus in milk leads to a release of parathyroid hormone, which further breaks down bone. Then there is the protein and sugars in milk that form bone destroying acids. This is why the US has the highest osteoporosis rate and is the largest consumer of milk in the world. The US is followed by Finland, who has the second highest osteoporosis rate, and is the second largest consumer of milk in the world.

Nonsense. Vitamin D is added to 'Pasteurized' milk because it is destroyed in the process of pateurization.

How do you get that milk is a leading cause of OP. My wife drinks it daily and she is nowhere near OP.

There are many causes of OP and exercise or lack thereof is more likely to be a contributor.

North Americans also drove more '57 Chevies than anyone else in the world, but not sure you could draw a straight line from that to OP

[meatbeater]

Nonsense. Vitamin D is added to 'Pasteurized' milk because it is destroyed in the process of pateurization.

How do you get that milk is a leading cause of OP. My wife drinks it daily and she is nowhere near OP.

There are many causes of OP and exercise or lack thereof is more likely to be a contributor.

North Americans also drove more '57 Chevies than anyone else in the world, but not sure you could draw a straight line from that to OP

There are studies that suggest  milk uses more calcium then it has, to digest in our bodies.  The calcium in milk is not very digestible by humans and to top it off it creates an acidic environment and then uses calcium from our bones as a buffer.  I believe these studies were on pasteurized milk and I am repeating this from memory of articles I read a long time ago. 
 Don't know if it's true or not but theses articles are always floating around on the vegan fruit eating web sites.  Then they cry about about the treatment of the cows then there is puss in milk.  Then usually one of them will start on eggs are periods.
 

[cherimoya_kid]

Vitamin D is not destroyed by pasteurization.  It is added to milk because people's diets in the US tend to be deficient in vitamin D, plus they tend to not get enough sun exposure, usually.

[raw-al]

CK,
Right you are. I stand corrected. It is vit c that is from 10 to 50% destroyed in milk, as well as lesser amounts of several other important vitamins including vitamins B6 and B12 as well as pretty much all the enzymatic activity.

An interesting thing is that industry claims that the vitamin C is made up for in other foods but advocates for raw milk say that the quantity of vit c destroyed in milk is greater than the amount in the entire US citrus crop.

So vit D is added in the same sense as iodine is added to salt.

[raw-al]

http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/no-milk/new/?topicseen#new

[cherimoya_kid]

And the milk/no-milk debate goes on and on. LOL

[raw-al]

Ooops I put the wrong link in. Her 'tis
http://www.inspection.gc.ca/food/dairy-products/manuals-inspection-procedures/dairy-vitamin-addition/eng/1378179097522/1378180040706

[CatTreats]

I just felt like sharing this here. I personally never had real "issues" per se with dairy. I've always loved heavy cream (but never drank milk straight), greek yogurt, kefir, and cheese. Ohhh and cream cheese and sour cream, mmmm. And, of course, butter. But I wanted to see if there might be an issue with dairy, just because we all know dairy isn't really natural and it's best to cut it out if you aren't going to die without it.

So after a month and a half of abstaining, I had some raw butter and cheese. Sure enough, bad digestion issues. Well, not horrible. I thought I'd have to make a bathroom trip, but I didn't in the end. Just some unpleasant feelings and discomfort. No pain, but enough discomfort to confirm that it isn't optimal for me to be eating it. So, I'll continue to abstain from it. If I have to eat it in something at a social gathering or some recipe, I won't mind it the way I would run away from any grains, but I'm going to do what I can to never eat it now. I guess I'll have to get more friendly with coconut milk now.

[raw-al]

Are you certain the cheese was raw? I know cheese that has been heated gives me grief but I can eat raw cheese. With no issues.

You are probably better off to avoid those items. Dairy is difficult to digest. A certain amount of that may be due to the incessant breeding and the fact that the animals nowadays are not normal animals in the sense that they wouldn't survive a day in the wild.

[CatTreats]

Are you certain the cheese was raw? I know cheese that has been heated gives me grief but I can eat raw cheese. With no issues.

It was definitely raw. The butter as well - 100% cold churned.

You are probably better off to avoid those items. Dairy is difficult to digest. A certain amount of that may be due to the incessant breeding and the fact that the animals nowadays are not normal animals in the sense that they wouldn't survive a day in the wild.

I agree with the "not normal" part. I wouldn't be surprised if a certain amount of dairy from, say, a completely wild reindeer would not give us issues. Just because of the casein / lactose differences as well as just the chemical make-up between an overly inbred, domesticated animal and a completely wild one. But yeah, I'll be abstaining from it. I'd rather just avoid it to the fullest so that if I ever do have to eat it for whatever reason (dairy slips into a lot of stuff at social gatherings, usually butter), it will be the once in a blue moon time.

[Sorentus]

If you are going to use a calcium supplement for your calcium intake then you might wanna give a shot at blackstrap molasses, sure it's not raw but neither are supplements. It has very low sugar per TBS only 11 and unlike honey or other sugar, it contain almost no fructose, only 1/4 of it is actually fructose the rest is other forms of sugar, glucose and galactose. It is also rich in potassium, iron, magnesium and vitamin 6, making it an excellent source of electrolytes and minerals.

Heres the one I buy:

http://www.vitacost.com/plantation-unsulphured-blackstrap-molasses-15-fl-oz

I eat 5 TBS a day