Reception of Clara Davis experiments by military scientists in the US

[Ungullible]

At long last,   the  missing link between Clara Davis experiments (1927-1930’s) on the food instinct of newly weaned and the “Stone Age diet” of W Voegtlin  is gradually  coming to light, thanks to the profusion of biographical details which can be nowadays be  found on the web.

The following has been written by a top notch military scientist who ended his career as Head of a  major public university in the US. He was also a  member of a (republican) Defense Cabinet (MOD).    Excerpted from a book for the larger audience , which went into a number of editions, it was published  before the war broke out  between  Germany and the US .

It clearly  demonstrates 
a) that the (rare )  ideational combinations of  instinct + paleolithic diet theory  could be found before WWII.   I was pretty sure that it was the case, but never found a concrete exemple before.
 b) military staff were particularly interested in the subject, as they’ve always been throughout history

QUOTE
   “ Ceux qui sont en faveur du  laissez faire en matière de nutrition , qui prétendent que les papilles gustatives sont les seuls arbitres nécessaires pour déterminer le régime adéquat, auraient eu parfaitement raison 100 000 ans en arrière, mais plus de nos jours, car nos papilles n’ont pas été entrainées de la manière dont il était prévu qu’elles le soient. Elles ont été détournées des choses simples et naturelles et exigent des stimulations artificielles. Il a été suggéré que les premiers hommes se préservaient de morts douloureuses par intoxication grace à un appareil sensitif capable de détecter les matières empoisonnées. Cela a certainement été vrai à une époque mais cela n’est certainement plus vrai de nos jours. Nos poisons se cachent dans l’art culinaire et derrière les épices, et meme lorsque la cuisine n’arrive à plus à les dissimuler,  il est possible que nos papilles émoussées  ne seraient plus capables de les détecter.  Les enfants laissés à eux-mêmes montrent une préférence affligeante  pour les sucres raffinés , les hydrates de carbone et les bonbons : ces aliments agissent sur eux comme le sang agit sur  le tigre. Ils y laissent leur santé et leurs dents. Les enfants des peuplades primitives avaient les memes appétences, mais ils n’avaient pas la possibilité de satisfaire leurs envies avec des aliments industriels. Ils devaient se contenter de fruits murs et de canne à sucre sauvage , ce qui leur permettait d’absorber suffisamment de minéraux et de vitamines avec leur sucre.  Tant que nous maltraiterons nos aliments par les procédés les plus divers, nous serons condamnés à tempérer nos inclinations instinctives et à modérer nos choix alimentaires par le jugement de notre raison. Il y a eu un certain nombre d’expériences consistant à nourrir des enfants en leur laissant le choix. Ces expériences ont souvent été mal interprétées ……etc etc…..»

Personal comments :

In retrospect, and taking into account the fact that hardly anybody  ever since that time,  has heard about an instinctual theory of human nutrition,  there  can be several ways of reading  these past  “admonitions” by a military scientist  :

1)   A naïve  reading  of the above would be   “ Behold, happy citizens ! Science is on the verge of elucidating the mystery of how the food instinct of our species works. You will soon be handed out  the user manual, as soon as we can find a complete version of it  ! ”. May be this is what some military scientists  voluntarily  did,  in the end , in the   1950’s when the understanding  of “paleo diet- within- an- instinctual- framework”  leaked out to the ears of the likes of Roger MacDougall and Burger,  and from there  to the larger audience ?     

2)   A more realistic reading/interpretation  ? “ You,  morons, do not deserve to be  taught how to become  self reliant with your food instinct . We , Grand Master of Science and Defense Technology  have rediscovered a secret, which we will only partially unveil  in this book  so that we may keep you entirely  in our power…and we will discourage you to pursue   the mastery  of your food instinct,  by pretending that economy and society cannot go  backward …  ”
 In that case , the 1960’s repeated attempts  to bring into the public light  a theory on instinctive paleo diet is  the result of a "Snowden like"   MEAT-Y-LEAK

The distressing thing is that I don't know which one of the above corresponds to  true history.......

[Iguana]

You have to give the precise references of that book (title, author, etc) otherwise your post is unverifiable, hence useless garbage, as usual :

Excerpted from a book for the larger audience , which went into a number of editions, it was published  before the war broke out  between  Germany and the US .

Bibliographic citation and referencing guide
Why reference?

From reading academic articles and books, you should be familiar with the scholarly practice of making references in the text to other people's work and providing listings of relevant source material at the end of the text. Why is this done, and why should you adopt this approach in your own work? There are several reasons:

    To enable someone reading the document to find the material you have referred to or consulted
    To demonstrate your width of reading and knowledge about a subject
    To support and/or develop points made in the text
    To avoid accusations of plagiarism: using somebody else's work without acknowledging the fact (...)

1. Book

Author(s) - family name, initials. (Year). Title of book. Edition. Place of publication: Publisher.

Examples

    Anthony, G. (2002). UK public law and European law. Oxford: Hart.
    Cohen, H., Rogers, G.F.C. and Saravanamuttoo, H.I.H. (1996). Gas turbine theory. 4th ed. Harlow: Longman.

[Iguana]

You will find some biographical details on him  :
http://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2010/nov/30/wolfgang-lutz-obituary

Interesting article about Wolfgang Lutz. 
Your last post has been moved into the moderators section  because it is defamatory for Lutz, Voegtlin  and GCB.

Defamation is not allowed here.

[Ungullible]

Of course Iguana. Of course . No defamation . Just the plain facts.

So let me rephrase the message which you just suppressed.


- In the 30's a US military scientist who will later supervise all  military research in the US  writes that our instinct  only works  under paleolithic conditions,  and further states that this is the only adequate framework for interpreting Clara Davis experiments  (initial message above)
- In the 50' s a young german military physician who started his medical studies when Hitler came into power ( he was 20 years in 1933),  states  that neolithic diet is the culprit for all diseases of civilization 20 years before Voegtlin's book is issued.  Because of his young  age during WWII,  he did not held  management  position in german research and  was  therefore an underling in the infamous Dachau experiments.
- In 1957  a research director of  the UK Royal Navy claims that the mixing of raw food is, in itself,   sufficient to baffle our instinct and that cooked  carb foods should be reduced in the diet. 

The least we can say without defaming  is that there seems to have been quite a bit of reflexion  going on amongst scientists working in  military circles AROUND the world  in the 30's and 40's, on this topic.  Given the wealth of french colonial/military  medicine and french medical anthropology at that time, I would be extremely surprised  not to find any similar attempt at theorizing these ideas in France. 

And strangely, none of these XXth century theorizing efforts by military medicine   ( efforts which actually started well  before the french revolution)  have  been acknowledged by  non-military litterature issued  by non-physicians (neither MacDougall, nor  Delteil, nor Burger were physicians -  but all of them were artists ) who tried to call the attention of the public on a theory based on similar scientific tenets,  after the 50's .   

These are facts , Iguana. Not interpretations. 

[Iguana]

So, why no references again? Are they are a secret you jealously keep for yourself?  Do we have to simply believe your unreferenced, unsubstantiated rants? Did the allies won the war because their armies were on instinctive raw paleo diet? LOL.

[Ungullible]

I just gave you a reference which was freely available on the Net since end of 2010  which was apparently ignored .   Still, you did not like what you call my "ranting" and  deleted my message, as you have done before.

Everything is on the web , waiting for you and  other truth seekers  to read and learn : bibliography, obituaries, books......

Everything is at hand : what you need to do is to cross information over and over and over and over again. And the truth comes up . It's a hell of a job so you have to have an enquiring mind.   

I don't belong to any university.  I don't have free access to any library.  When I need translations from german I'm buying those translations. When I need old articles from medical journals, I'm buying the documents. When I need books, I'm buying the books. 

And when I think  I will have decently covered the topic , it will be time to tell everybody. 

 Thanks for allowing me to keep a step ahead.
 



   

[Ungullible]

2)   A more realistic reading/interpretation  ? “ You,  morons, do not deserve to be  taught how to become  self reliant with your food instinct . We , Grand Master of Science and Defense Technology  have rediscovered a secret, which we will only partially unveil  in this book  so that we may keep you entirely  in our power…and we will discourage you to pursue   the mastery  of your food instinct,  by pretending that economy and society cannot go  backward …  ”
 In that case , the 1960’s repeated attempts  to bring into the public light  a theory on instinctive paleo diet is  the result of a "Snowden like"   MEAT-Y-LEAK

The distressing thing is that I don't know which one of the above corresponds to  true history.......

The history of food instinct is, by essence,  part and parcel of a larger history of anti bourgeois feelings (not more but not less than anti bourgeois economics, anti bourgeois educational  theories, anti bourgeois  philosophy…..). Since bourgeois mentality is ruling  every aspects of life in the western world,   it is quite difficult to think " from outside"  the bourgeois matrix, or for this purpose, to get access to the quite limited  pertinent "outsider" information  (unless of course a good sheperd gives you a head start , which is often  what happens  )
 
Nonetheless, and in spite of this common viewpoint , it  would be stupid to think that all scientists  who advocated following one's food instinct would all share the same political opinion, be it only because a non negligeable part of  them were homosexuals. In those days (turn of the XXth century) , people tended to have widely differing views on homosexuality, based on their political leanings (and  vice versa !) .
 
 It is therefore to be  expected  that those scientists in favour in an instinctual  theory of human diet split  in two camps in 1917 : those, on the left,  in favour of the marxist (anti bourgeois)  Russian revolution showed a somewhat  higher degree of political "consistency"  at least until the atrocities of the communist regime became known; while  those on the right who  adhered   to  the idea that the  capitalist-liberal society, in spite of all its shortcomings,   was the only one which  could nurture  the kind of scientific reform  needed to "push"  the instinctive diet  agenda  on the table,  ended up associating themselves with the devil of eugenism, racial politics and antisemitism.   

What happened after WWII ?

After 1945,  it must have become clear to anti-capitalist scientists  that military research was loosing its autonomy  to be absorbed and diluted in the new  militaro-industrial-capitalist complex which , in the end, would   mean the betrayal  the old humanist dream which could  jeopardize   the transmission of military  traditions for the generations to come.
Hence the urgent need to create a new tradition outside military circles. A new tradition  which could survive the demise of  the humanist ideal as transmitted  by military scientists.
This last paragraph is of course purely speculative but speculation is not forbidden.

[Ungullible]

Did the allies won the war because their armies were on instinctive raw paleo diet? LOL.

J'ai cherché à savoir si l'intéret pour la question de l'instinct alimentaire avait été intégrée dans  la rédaction des manuels de survie, notamment ceux qui étaient distribués aux pilotes d'avion et aux marins américains pendant la seconde guerre. Je n'ai pas trouvé de trace écrite, ce qui ne signifie pas que leur entrainement militaire n'intégrait pas cette question.

Quelle influence a eu la question du cru et/ la question de l'instinct alimentaire au cours des dernières guerres ?

-Guerre de 1870-71 : l'Allemagne triomphe sur la France. Discours explicatif de la victoire coté allemand :  l'Allemagne est restée chrétienne et l'armée allemande est fondée sur la religion naturelle contrairement aux hordes de gaulois paiens. Je doute que  cette question ait eu une incidence sur la ration des soldats allemands (pour répondre à ta question)  mais, au niveau idéologique, il ne fait pas de doute que la justification de la victoire  reposait, à leurs yeux,  sur le respect de la religion naturelle ( il s'agit de recherches en cours donc je ne peux pas plus élaborer )
-Guerre de 14-18 : les militaires demandent aux scientifiques comment , en l'absence de fruits et légumes frais servis dans les tranchées (!!), on peut rendre plus rationnelle l'alimentation des soldats. Réponse des scientifiques alliés : donnez leur des aliments séchés et des graines germées. J'ai lu que des groupes de prisonniers (serbes je crois) en mauvaise santé,  à la fin de la guerre , ont reçu des graines germées à haute dose.
- Guerre de 39-45 : je n'ai trouvé que des textes coté armée américaine qui montrent que la réflexion sur  l'instinct alimentaire est intégrée dans l'amélioration de la palatabilité  et du plaisir de manger . Apparemment les GI  devaient se plaindre que c'était dégueulasse !

[LePatron7]

Wow! This confirms exactly what I knew about political and world leaders, corporate overlords, and the illuminati  all eating an instinctive diet.. I mean a primal diet.. I mean getting special government (alien created) health care.. I mean using orthomolecular medicine to treat themselves.. Secretly leading really healthy lives and keeping it from the masses to control the world.. I've known all along that the NWO musicians/puppets and owners of The Disney channel have been using instinctive nutrition to control the masses. Especially at the Disney channel.. That's where they brainwash them early...

Lol please excuse the HEAVY sarcasm. First, without references it sounds crazy. Second, even with references it sounds crazy.

Here's a reference showing the NWO puppets eating their instinctive diets.

http://www.usnews.com/news/slideshows/political-figures-diet-secrets-of-famous-politicians/3

Here's the NWO presidents incredible health through instinctive nutrition.

http://www.doctorzebra.com/prez/g_roster.htm

[cherimoya_kid]

Ungullible, dude, you need to just let it go.  GCB did not steal his theories from anyone. Even if he had (although he didn't), who cares?  The basic theory isn't what's so useful about his work.  it's the 50 years of experimentation on himself and other people that is what's so valuable.  It's the same type of knowledge that traditional groups around the world have/had about food...they got it through trial-and-error experimentation.  And it's valuable.

[Ungullible]

Cherimoya Kid : 

the concrete  experience is much more valuable than my historical "ranting" . You are right . If I was given the choice between being brainwashed ( ie  forgetting the  experience)  or burning all my books, I would burn all my books. 

But this is not the point. The point is : is it worth the effort ? It probably isn't if you don't like history.

I'm an historian by heart ( When I was a kid I wanted to become a teacher : I wanted to  teach  history or philosophy . I did none of it )  . So I'm just putting my passion to good use.   

If this story has to do with the history of toxicology, I want to know it
If this story has to do with the history of physiology , I want to know it
If this story has to do with the history of anthropology, I want to know it
If this story has to do with the history of phenomenology , I want to know it
If this story has to do with the history of physiology of respiration , I want to know it
If this story has to do with the birth of environmental medicine, I want to know it
If this story has to do with the history of mining,  I want to know it
If this story has to do with the history of pushing the limits of the human body , I want to know it
If this story has to do with the history of the first commercial typewriter (  ) I want to know it
If this story has to do with the history of  political revolutions  , I want to know it
If this story has to do with the history of diabetes  , I want to know it
If this story is intertwined  with the history of Good and Bad Templars, I would like to know
If this story has to do with the theories of the Fall of humanity,   I want to know it
IF this story has to do with the history of the (religious representations of the) Devil, I want to know it
If this story has to do with the history of romantic philosophy  , I want to know it
If this story has to do with the history of Anti-Lumières, I want to know it
If this story has to do with the history of Contre Revolution , I want to know it
If this story has to do with the history of christian anarchism , I want to know it
If this story has to do with the history of christian apologetics, whether catholic or protestant,  I want to know it
If this story has to do with the history of the Swedenborgian sect, I want to know it
If this story has to do with lutherianism and  not with calvinism, I want to know why.
If this story has to do with the history of anti judaism, I know why, but I want to know more 
If  this story has to do with the history of naval medicine , I want to know all of it
If this story has to do with the history of aerospace medicine ( yes it does !), I want to know all 
If this story has to do with the history of the First, Second and third German Reich, I want to know
If this story has to do with Anatole France and Chateaubriand and Huysmans, I want to know  who told them
I want to know how the idea  of  food instinct  promoted new ideas in education throughout centuries
If this story has to do with the history of conversion to catholicism, I also want to know it.
If this story has to do with the history of pediatry as a separate medical field, I want to know it.
If this story has to do with the catholic kings of Spain , I want to know it
If this story cannot be separated from the history of  Grossherzogtum Baden, so be it but I want to know why  ! 
if this story cannot be separated from the history of US universities  suffocating under  presbytarian authorities, so be it .
If this story has to do with the history of the idea of the superiority of tropical populations over white "races", I will know it.
If this story cannot be separated from the history of homosexuality, I want to know 
If this story has to do with the history of alcohol and alcohol rehabilitation , you won't be surprised

The  idea that we have an instinct and that our instinct should be considered a "moral guide"   is everywhere present in the history of scientific food hygiene, and everywhere in the story of our western civilisation.  Just look at the 1913 debates on the first FDA regulations : they talk about food instinct ! Things have gone very very bad in the US since then, at least on the food front !

Everywhere in science. But nowhere in the multitude of treatises written by naturopaths and alternative medicine man ( with a few limited exceptions such as Maurice Phusis " La Chute de l'humanité"   )

The only recent elements in this long story  are
a)  the clarification and (simultaneously ) the exacerbation of the  cereal question which followed  the great medical discoveries of the XIXth  and XXth c.
b) the eradication  of the idea of food instinct  by the new profession of  nutritionnists . This  eradication becomes blatant right after WWII, precisely at a time when the idea manages to gain some  scientific momentum.

Not interested ?
May be you are not.
I'm fascinated but, granted,  all researchers are "fascinated"  by their choosen topic .

[Ungullible]

Wow! This confirms exactly what I knew about political and world leaders, corporate overlords, and the illuminati  all eating an instinctive diet.. I mean a primal diet.. I mean getting special government (alien created) health care..

You totally misread my contribution.
It does happen, from time to time,   that original minds replete with original ideas get very close to the executive power. 
It never happens because of their originality.
It happens rather "in spite of"  their originality,  and it happens  because they have higher qualities which tend to hide or conceal   their originality .
Such was certainly the case of this scientist.

I went to Unesco library today. They have one of the best reference library in the world for biography ( if you are looking for a Columbian or a Nepalese Who's who , this is the place to go ! ) . Here is a tid bit of what I found  : in 1941 this scientist  astounded his colleagues of the American Chemical Society with his prediction that the sun rays would be harnessed to provide electrical power. He cautioned against the idea of postponing  research until petroleum is entirely depleted.  During WWII  he supervised  research on supersonic flying devices (which were finally manufactured right after the end of the war) including planes without pilot. He was a true mastermind, not a naturopath who has found a ready made  idea.   

[LePatron7]

You totally misread my contribution.
It does happen, from time to time,   that original minds replete with original ideas get very close to the executive power. 
It never happens because of their originality.
It happens rather "in spite of"  their originality,  and it happens  because they have higher qualities which tend to hide or conceal   their originality .
Such was certainly the case of this scientist.

I went to Unesco library today. They have one of the best reference library in the world for biography ( if you are looking for a Columbian or a Nepalese Who's who , this is the place to go ! ) . Here is a tid bit of what I found  : in 1941 this scientist  astounded his colleagues of the American Chemical Society with his prediction that the sun rays would be harnessed to provide electrical power. He cautioned against the idea of postponing  research until petroleum is entirely depleted.  During WWII  he supervised  research on supersonic flying devices (which were finally manufactured right after the end of the war) including planes without pilot. He was a true mastermind, not a naturopath who has found a ready made  idea.

So what book is that from?

[Projectile Vomit]

...in 1941 this scientist  astounded his colleagues of the American Chemical Society with his prediction that the sun rays would be harnessed to provide electrical power...

In 1941 solar photovoltaics had been around for over 100 years; the photovoltaic effect was first observed back in 1839. This scientist you speak of didn't 'predict' anything.

[Ungullible]

Listen to this : when this top military scientist  died , his widow received hundreds of condolences from the then "big shot"  of US military research and governement officials  including Richard Nixon himself and governor Rockefeller.

 I  browsed the  list of  names on  cards and telegrams  to try and find US military scientists : the whole list of people involved in the US air/sea Lockheed rocket programme was there plus and a few others such as

the chairman of Naval Research Advisory Committee
the Chief  of Research & development in the Army
the Chief Naval Operations
 several  retired Army  General
an assistant Secretary for Navy Research
the secretary of the Army scientific advisory panel

But the ones which made me laugh  are these two :

KEITH GLENNAN  First NASA Administrator : Remember the Nasa report on human food instinct I mentionned earlier ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._Keith_Glennan

and tatatatatatata  (drums rolling)

REAR ADMIRAL OWEN, Chief of US  naval research ...

Why is he important ?
Do you remember a certain TL CLEAVE who spent all his years pondering on how our food instinct works ?  Do you remember I asked you to pay special attention to the fact that he  wasn't "n'importe qui" ?
 Cleave was  Director of UK Naval research .
Well,  it seems Admiral  Owen had the same position as Cleave but on the other side of the Atlantic.

And look what OWEN was involved in, in  his later years  :  you will never guess !

 Long term  SURVIVAL Experiments......... It's here :

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-1406869.html

 So funny ! This connection, I must admit , had escaped my attention until today

While soldiers were fighting on the front lines , military physicians and scientists fought their bravest war in the labs  trying to unveil  the secrets of our instinct for food in order to prepare for survival in an atomic age .









 





 










 

[cherimoya_kid]

Ungullible--I think I speak for everyone when I say I fail to see the RELEVANCE of all this to actually practicing the diet. It's mildly interesting at best.  I know you don't have anywhere else to talk about this, and I wish there was a whole bunch of forums for people who loved this topic so you could feel like you're not so alone.  However, we are mostly of a more practical bent here.  We simply want to know what works, and the history of military research from the 1940s doesn't really help a lot with that.