Pemmican

[Satya]

No, sorry I have no pemmican pic.  But I want one here!  Oh please oh please, anyone who makes it please post up a photo of it.  I make jerky all the time.  I want to try to make pemmican, but I need some encouragement.  TIA!

[yon yonson]

does anyone know if you can make pemmican without heating the fat? like using marrow or something and just mixing that with the jerky or something. i've heard of people using raw coconut oil, but not sure if that works well. im really looking to make pemmican for traveling, so anyone got any ideas?

[TylerDurden]

does anyone know if you can make pemmican without heating the fat? like using marrow or something and just mixing that with the jerky or something. i've heard of people using raw coconut oil, but not sure if that works well. im really looking to make pemmican for traveling, so anyone got any ideas?

I don't think there is any method. Basically, the fat needs to be deprived of all moisture in order to be preserved. I'd imagine one could dry pemmican at 40 degrees celsius/104 degrees fahrenheit, but it would take ages.

[Raw Kyle]

I'm not sure but from what I've read and just thinking about it in terms of how cells work I believe that the only way to get the moisture from the cells is for them to be burst, and the only way to do that is by heating them to the boiling point of water which then bursts the cells as the water begins to boil and then it evaporates out through the bursting points. If you could somehow get an instrument that could chop up the fat even down into the individual cells you could possibly dry them out at a low (below cooking) temperature, but clearly this is a matter of either science fiction or cost prohibition.

[yon yonson]

well i guess i'll just have to suck it up and use rendered fat. does anyone know which fats might be less harmful when heated (ie. suet, marrow, hide fat, etc)?

[SilentBuddy]

If you cut your meat thinly, you can dry it at 104 degrees Fahrenheit. It takes about 12 hours. As for fat, I rendered lard in a dehydrator at 135 degrees Fahrenheit. It took me about 12 hours. I got a lower yield because I could get all the fat out. I think I can do it at a lower temperature because the melting point of fat is not high. You have to try. Just blend your fat in a food processor and put a layer of it in a strainer. The fat will drip.

[lex_rooker]

Glennm01 and I just made about 6 lbs of pemmican yesterday.  I believe he said he will be taking it with him on an out of town trip to Wisconsin or some other really cold place.

I've been making pemmican for years and the only fat that is really usable if you want both the nutritional and keeping quailties is from red meat animals like beef, bison, deer, elk, etc.

Satya, I've been asked to put together the pemmican manual and it's on my list, but it will take some time to do a thorough job of it.  In the mean time, I think I'll be making another batch next week and will try to post a couple of pictures of the major points in the process.  No pictures of fat rendering though as I rendered 65 lbs not to long ago so will be using from my stores.

Lex

[glennm01]

Yes indeed, Lex helped me make about a week's worth of pemmican the other day. To say the man has it down to a science would be a gross understatement. I'll be putting the pemmican to the test as my primary source of food during a week on the road starting tomorrow. Pretty cool that I've got a week's worth of food in my suitcase, and it takes up maybe a little more space than a pair of shoes. I'll let you guys know how it goes when I return, assuming I survive the icy Wisconsin tundra. Yes, we Los Angelenos are wussies as far as the weather is concerned...
 

[Satya]

Satya, I've been asked to put together the pemmican manual and it's on my list, but it will take some time to do a thorough job of it.  In the mean time, I think I'll be making another batch next week and will try to post a couple of pictures of the major points in the process.  No pictures of fat rendering though as I rendered 65 lbs not to long ago so will be using from my stores.

Lex and Glenn,

It's great that you have this pemmican-making project going on.  I think you ought to take it on the road, giving classes on how to make it where ever you go.  This is something I am considering actually - raw foods prep in my area.  Something to consider, but I always wonder about liability.  A video demo of your pemmican would be so helpful too.  I'll have to get off of my intentions and produce a video demo of carpaccio at the very least.

Well, I wasn't going to be the one to nag about the pemmican instructions that have been talked about for months now, especially after Lex produced such a fine jerky manual.  Time for this sort of thing is not always available.  But hey, perhaps if you wouldn't mind discussing amounts needed for pemmican here.  I do have some suet - it's whatever my rancher said was best for pemmican, and it is raw now.  And I sliced up a 5 pound top round roast this morning, half of which is now in the dehydrator.  So what ratios in pounds or kilos of raw, undried meat to unrendered suet would I need?  Do you season the meat for the jerky?  Thanks for any information about basics.

An aside:  One of my cats (all are fed pastured raw d & c from the farm) will not eat raw sliced jerky roast.  But prepared jerky, watch out.  He'll rip through a baggy to get the seasoned dried stuff.

[lex_rooker]

Satya,
The formula for pemmican is rather easy.  It is just equal parts rendered fat and dried meat by weight.  If you have 1 lb of thoroughly dried meat then you will need 1 lb of melted rendered fat.  That's it.  You must grind or shred the dried meat in a blender or food processor (or in my case I use the power grinder from hell that I made for a previous project).  I know it's gross but the shredded meat should look sort of like ground chewing tobacco - a rather course, fiberous powder.

Then melt the fat and stir in the shredded jerky.  I try to keep the temperature fairly low when melting the fat - maybe 130 to 150 deg max.  I don't want to deep fry the dried raw meat with 300 deg fat.  You just want it warm enough to melt.   I then press the warm mixture into lined cupcake pans and set aside to cool.  This will result in a rather hard, dense hockey puck.  If you are using standard sized cupcake pans and pack the liners to the top of the pan, each puck should weigh about 80 grams and this works out to right at 500 calories each.

Lex

[TylerDurden]

So Lex, you and Glenn actually met off-line? or just gave advice via e-mail?

I'm just curious as I presume the majority of raw animal foodists are in the Los Angeles area where I presume you're both based?

[lex_rooker]

So Lex, you and Glenn actually met off-line? or just gave advice via e-mail?

I'm just curious as I presume the majority of raw animal foodists are in the Los Angeles area where I presume you're both based?

Hi Tyler,
Yes, Glenn and I have met face to face several times in the past few weeks.  He wanted to see exactly what I do and how I do it as far as my normal daily food routine goes.   He also wanted hands-on help in making jerky and pemmican so we set up a date to build the $10 jerky maker and prepare some jerky.  A few days later we met to turn the jerky into pemmican.  I think he had a great time and I had fun as well.

I've spent a lot of time figuring out how to make the things I do as simple as possible, and I enjoy passing along what I've learned to others.  It seems I've always got someone coming over to work on some project or other.  Keeps me busy and out of the bars! 

If anyone wants to drop by they are more than welcome.  Just give me a little advance notice so that I'm sure to be home.

Lex

[Nicola]

If anyone wants to drop by they are more than welcome.  Just give me a little advance notice so that I'm sure to be home.

Lex

Hi Lex, I have been in e-mail contact with "Delfugo"; have you met him face to face? Do you know if he adds salt to his pemmican? Does the original pemmican have salt and do you believe if the salt you add has any other plus point besides reducing cramps like hydration, digestion?

Do you notice any water retention if you don't move much - slower metabolism of water and nutrition?

Nicola

[lex_rooker]

Hi Nicola,
I've corresponded with Delfuego via E-mail but we have never met.  He has told me that he does NOT add salt or any other seasoning to his pemmican.  It is just dried red meat and rendered fat.  He renders his fat in a very slow oven, a little over 200 deg F (around 100 deg C).  It takes many hours to do it this way, but he has a process that works well for him and his family.

As far as I know the original pemmican did not have salt.  It was just dried meat and rendered fat with the possible addition of 5% to 10% dried berries (tart berries similar to blue berries or wild strawberries).  There is some controversy over the berries.  We know from the Hudson Bay Company records that they did add berries but there is some speculation that the berries were only added at Hudson Bay Company request because their customers preferred it that way.  I have no idea, but would not be surprised if the Native Americans added berries to the pemmican for their own use.  It seems a little far fetched to me that a European company would tell the people who invented the food in the first place how to make it - especially since drying sufficient berries for this purpose would be a tremendous amount of work for very little additional profit.  I suspect that a small amount of dried berries was a common addition to the original pemmican, but as with anything else, depended on their availability.

I don't notice water retention from the addition of a small amount of salt to my normal diet, however, I do experience a very large amount of water retention if I eat any significant amount of carbs.  My activity level seems to have nothing to do with water retention.

Lex

[Satya]

If you have 1 lb of thoroughly dried meat then you will need 1 lb of melted rendered fat.  That's it.  You must grind or shred the dried meat in a blender or food processor (or in my case I use the power grinder from hell that I made for a previous project).  I know it's gross but the shredded meat should look sort of like ground chewing tobacco - a rather course, fiberous powder.

Thanks, Lex.  I guess I should consult the jerky manual for drying times and temps.  At least I assume your jerky instructions will work for the pemmican.  I never am too strict about drying jerky, because it gets eaten by the wolves in my family within 2 days.  I will have to thoroughly dry it and then hide it!

[lex_rooker]

Satya,
The meat (or dried berries if used) for pemmican should be thoroughly dry.  It should crack and break when bent.  It should not be rubbery at all.  If there is much moisture in the meat, mold and other critters could grow and flourish - not an ideal situation.  Similar to jerky, if you eat it right away then it doesn't matter much, but if you expect to keep it for more than a week or so the meat should be very dry.

Lex

[wodgina]

That's cool glen and Lex caught up. My first and only batch of pemmican went of and was truly revolting. I did render the fat long enough though. That Delfuego character is interesting...eating only pemmican for 9 years! amazing if true.

[lex_rooker]

Andrew,
I think Delfuego says he and his family have been eating only pemmican for about 4 years.  This was in an effort to help his wife overcome some health issues, and it seems to have been successful beyond all they had hoped.   He got the idea from Raymond Audette who wrote the book Neanderthin - good book by the way. 

His children are rather young.  I think one is 3 and the other is around 5 as I remember.  Both now prefer pemmican to any other food.  In fact, he tells a story where one of the kids was given a chocolate chip cookie or some such at a party and promptly threw it up.  He eats about 3,600 calories worth, his wife eats around 1,800 calories worth, his oldest child eats around 1,200 calories, and the youngest comes in at 800 calories per day.  They eat only once per day in the early evening.

Pemmican is an acquired taste, but once you get used to it you tend to like it better than most other alternatives.  Glenn is going to try this cold turkey.  He's never eaten pemmican before, but is going to attempt to eat this as his exclusive food while out of town for a full week.  I took a bit of pitty on him and we did make the pemmican with lightly seasoned jerky rather than no seasoning at all, but I expect it will still be a bit of culture shock for him.

Lex

[Satya]

I am wondering how Glenn is doing on his "Travels with Pemmican." 

I have been fortunate enough to have sampled this fine pemmican that Lex and Glenn made.  Much like a dense jerky, and very, very filling.  It's a hit!  I notice that the jerky within is really super dry - much drier than I usually make mine (but then, I steal it out of the dehydrator at various stages of dryness).

And now, without further ado, here is Lex's Famous Pemmican, shot by Lex himself (or maybe a friend?):

[Raw Kyle]

I'm definitely jealous. I wish I had that on my last trip, I tried but failed in my first pemmican making attempt.

Could any rendered fat be used? For example, lard?

Also I was thinking of trying to make fish jerky. The next trip I take I want to have pemmican as my main food source, with jerky (fish and land animal hopefully) and then supplement with foods I get on my trip, like a few fruits or if there is a good quality source of RAF, or maybe even some cooked paleo fair occassionally.

[lex_rooker]

I've just completed a comprehensive Pemmican manual that uses the same format as my Jerky Maker manual.  The pemmican manual covers a bit of history, as well as the entire process for making pemmican including rendering the fat, with pictures for every step.  The picture that Satya posted is from the front cover.

Satay is proof reading it for me and when I get a thumbs up I'll try to get it posted with the Jerky Maker manual on the rawpaleodiet.com site.

Lex

[yon yonson]

thank you so much! im so excited! i feel like i should be paying you or something...

[Michael]

Wonderful news Lex!  I look forward to reading that too.  As someone else mentioned elsewhere though, I'm very interested in the possibilities of making pemmican without  'cooking' the fat - perhaps dehydrating it for long periods as I recall another member describing having tried.  Have you any experience of that?  I'm assuming that it's not possible otherwise you would be doing it!

Kyle, just thought I'd mention out of interest my experiences with 'travel food'.  In the summer, I spent a week hiking in the Spanish and French Pyranees in hot sunshine and 'backpacking light'!  My only source of food for the entire week was a large zip-lock bag of homemade beef jerky (seasoned with celtic sea salt & black pepper and dehydrated at 105 degrees) and a large tub of unpasteurised, cultured french butter.  I would simply dip the jerky in the softened butter and eat until satiated.  Firstly, it was absolutely delicious! (I'm now drooling at just the thought of it) and, more importantly, it provided me with the energy to hike 30 miles per day in the mountains for a whole week with no other food!  There were also absolutely no issues with either food remaining fresh and edible.  I suspect the fact that the butter was already cultured helped with this as, too, I believe it helped with it amazingly remaining solid.  Personally, I'm no longer eating dairy but - if you are - this is perhaps something worth considering.

Michael

[lex_rooker]

Wonderful news Lex!  I look forward to reading that too.  As someone else mentioned elsewhere though, I'm very interested in the possibilities of making pemmican without  'cooking' the fat - perhaps dehydrating it for long periods as I recall another member describing having tried.  Have you any experience of that?  I'm assuming that it's not possible otherwise you would be doing it!

As far as I know this is not possible.  The fat traps and seals the water into the tissue structure and the only way to release it is to heat the fat enough to release it from the cells and flashing the moisture to steam ruptures the cellular structure allowing the liquid fat to escape.

Kyle, just thought I'd mention out of interest my experiences with 'travel food'.  In the summer, I spent a week hiking in the Spanish and French Pyranees in hot sunshine and 'backpacking light'!  My only source of food for the entire week was a large zip-lock bag of homemade beef jerky (seasoned with celtic sea salt & black pepper and dehydrated at 105 degrees) and a large tub of unpasteurised, cultured french butter.  I would simply dip the jerky in the softened butter and eat until satiated.  Firstly, it was absolutely delicious! (I'm now drooling at just the thought of it) and, more importantly, it provided me with the energy to hike 30 miles per day in the mountains for a whole week with no other food!  There were also absolutely no issues with either food remaining fresh and edible.  I suspect the fact that the butter was already cultured helped with this as, too, I believe it helped with it amazingly remaining solid.  Personally, I'm no longer eating dairy but - if you are - this is perhaps something worth considering.

The combination of butter and jerky is wonderful to say the least and accomplishes the same thing as pemmican.  Pemmican is just jerky that has been ground to a fiberous mulch and then soaked with animal fat.  Beef or bison tallow is very firm, almost like candle wax, which makes the resulting pemmican very solid and easy to pack and store - it won't melt at temperatures below 120 so the pemmican stays solid at just about any temperature you're likely to encounter.  Animal fat, if from grass fed animials, also has a very high concentration of Omega 3 fatty acids which butter does not have.  All that said, the jerky/butter combination is a great option - as long as you make the jerky yourself and don't rely on the sugary cooked commercail stuff.

Lex

[prehistorik]

Animal fat, if from grass fed animials, also has a very high concentration of Omega 3 fatty acids which butter does not have.  All that said, the jerky/butter combination is a great option - as long as you make the jerky yourself and don't rely on the sugary cooked commercail stuff.

Doesn't most of the Omega-3 fat oxidize when you heat it?  Maybe you should add extracts of oregano or rosemary when preparing the fat?

"In the oil subjected to heating at 150 degrees Celsius in the absence of the herb extracts, only 15.9 per cent of DHA and 18.5 per cent of EPA remained in the fish oil. All of the EPA and DHA was found to have been oxidised in the extract-free oil incubated at 60 degrees Celsius for five days.

However, when one and five per cent oregano extract was added, the oil contained 39 and 66 per cent, respectively, of the original DHA content after heating at 150 degrees Celsius, and 45 and 69 per cent, respectively, of the original EPA content.

The highest retentions of DHA (57 per cent) and EPA (58 per cent) in fish oil with added rosemary were found for 2.5 per cent rosemary."

Source: http://www.foodnavigator.com/Science-Nutrition/Oregano-rosemary-extracts-promise-omega-3-preservation
and
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18034711