Tons of Calories? (plus Red meat and brain health?)

[fireflysea]

This past week I've been eating 2000-4500 calories every DAY. Its been 7 days of overeating. Tons of meat and fruit carbs and avocados. I feel much better when I eat lightly most days interspersed with maybe one or two days a week of eating a lot. what has gotten into me? Does anyone else find they eat TONS for periods at a time. I am extremely bloated and feel sick to my stomach from the sugars and perhaps all the meat. The first day of the overeating I was cravvvving the grass fed beef I kept seeing in the store. I finally broke down and bought it and ate the whole pound in a day. next tried ground venison. same. back to beef, then tried ground lamb (super calorie dense and fatty), and beef steaks (which I find VERY hard to enjoy and hard to digest). Ground meats digest far better for me. I am more of a fish person but this has been my first red meat phase.

I do feel like my brain needed it. I have been eating animal foods for the past year and a half now but before that I was raw vegan for 6 years and vegan for 10....it feels like this week my brain is like expanding and developing so rapidly that my body can't fully keep up. I am more articulate and witty again, and bright and attentive and interested in speaking to people whereas eating more vegan I end up feeling almost autistic or something loloolol. All this from red meat? I was eating a bunch of seafood before but nothing has done it like the meat meat meat. However, it is a bit difficult to digest, and I think eating lots of fruit exacerbates this. Seafood is wayy easier to digest. Thoughts? Should I cut out the fruit? Carbs do seem to swell up my belly/torso so I look like a balloon on fairly slender legs. At least I think its the carbs doing that. Juicier fruits like pineapple and dragonfruit in small amounts seem to be better tolerated though.
Anything fatty like avocado, coconut, ground meat and I just want to eat and eat with gusto.


ahh ok sorry I tend to be verbose, but to get more to the point...I do NOT want to gain weight. In fact I'd feel comfortable losing about 10 lbs and hope to. I want to be as lean as possible (except not as lean as I always was growing up). What do you all recommend? Decrease fruit but maintain meat and seafood based on what I crave? Eat the fruit but stick to green juices, cucumbers, pineapple, and less sweet fruits with only a little meat here and there? agh idk!

So today was like 4400 calories....and the highest carb EVER. It was ridiculous. I ate SO much mamey sapote. Like inhumanly possible. I think my past fruitarian days must have led me to forever feel i need to overeat fruit? ugh or just made me like diabetic or something so that every time I eat carbs now I eat forever and swell up? thoughts?
Mamey sapote, figs, kiwi, celery-cucumber-cilantro-parsley-lemon juice, 2 L water, 24 ounces fresh young coconut water, 2 tbsp coconut butter, 290 gram grass fed beef steak, and a laaarge haas avocado happened today. I'm so bloated I want to die, at the same time I don't really feel full/satiated and could eat forever. I'm thinking its just gotta be the fruit stimulating appetite. I really don't know what else.

I'd just love to hear how much you tend to eat, how you feel best, and what you think about fruit consumption? Everyone's different and I generally like to eat intuitively without boxing myself into one paradigm aside from eating raw. I'm also a mixed metabolic type I think, so I don't feel satiated on one type of food/macronutrient alone. thoughts???

btw I'm a 23 y.o female, 5'5" tall, about 115 lbs (I was 109 but after this past week I'm up to 115 lol!) Very very very small bones/frame. Like very.

[eveheart]

A pound of beef in one day is a bit much for your size unless you are doing intense exercise. Why so much? and why so much food in general?

You mentioned here and elsewhere that your beef is tough. What cuts are you buying? I buy roasts from the hind quarter, such as eye of round or london broil, which are large muscles with a minimum of tougher connective tissue. They are minimally aged when they reach the market, but you can try further dry aging in your refrigerator to increase tenderness.

I don't know about your particular metabolism, but if you think that you are overweight at your height and weight, you might benefit from toning your muscles rather than losing weight.

The exact proportion of protein-fat-carbs is a personal thing, but you could start with 40 - 60 g protein (or roughly 1/2 pound of meat or fish), about half your calories from fat, and a few pieces of fruit or vegetables if you want. More important, don't eat unless you are hungry,  only eat during daylight hours, and go to bed at night with an empty stomach.

[fireflysea]

Thanks Eveheart!
I don't normally eat so much at all, I guess I have just been "bingeing". Honestly I think it has to do with when I start eating fruit. If I eat fruit I tend to start eating and eating. I get bloated up and then feel out of balance and weird and like I need fats or protein and to keep eating and eating. Its counter-intuitive I know, and I've been fine up until the past 8 days I guess I sort of gave in to that feeling because it was getting worse and worse.

I'm not doing much exercise. I just walk or bike for transportation in the hot sunlight. Its very hot and humid here in the summer so even just a long walk feels like more of a workout than it is, you know? I have had health issues the past 2-3 years so I am trying to build up to a better fitness routine. I'd like to get back into yoga/pilates and running again. But for now I'm content with long walks. I just have been off this week, and I need to get back into it.

My digestion is really poor, so I never feel like I have an empty stomach EVER. Even after a few weeks of water fasting. I may need to do just green juice, other liquids, and fiberless animal foods for a while and just eat very little. Start drinking lots of rooibos tea and stuff too maybe. Its been challenging because I do not have my own space right now so I rarely have proper utensils or fridge/counter/food prep space. rawrrrr

[jessica]

Firefly, as I mentioned I. Another post, it seems you are underweight, even at 115 that is likely the lowest you should ever be at your height without compromising your healh.  I know those pounds do not feel the se when they are from rapid weight gain so bear with them as you stabilize your diet.

How is your menstral cycle/fertility/hormones?  I think women who have been very thin start binging due to lower sex hormone production.  Simply, the body uses fat to store vital hormones, when you are too low on fat for too long and he body starts to lower hormone production, which seems common in the 20's and 30's for women who have had health issues, the body will tend to retain or even add fat if necessary, to try and keep hormone production high.  If you don't honor this and are continually tryi g to lower weigt below the bodies needs it will tend to cause binging and restricting that lead to ill health.  The endocrine system is so important for proper health.

It is good you aren't pushing exercise on yourself, rest and relaxation and moderate exercise are great.  Swimming is a good hot humid recreation that you might consider though, stretching and relaxing in cold water has been the most fun for me when it gets over 100 degrees here!

I would suggest you switch up what meats/proteins/fats you are eating, try fish, try dairy and oysters.  Eat a leafy green and herb salad with vinegar and seaweed instead of fruit and see if it helps to curb your cravings.  Raw dairy is amazing for skin and hormonal health, i hink its especially good for women, do you have access to raw milk???

Remember that later summer is when fruit is ripe, find what's local, like berries or melons and go harvest them yourself, you will probably end up eating less, plus fresh, wild and local is generally better quality.  Wild berries also have higher pectin, which helps to flush out toxins from the intestines.

Do you eat any fermented/ aged foods?  Do you do well with spices foods?  Making and eating small portions of sauerkraut or kimchi has been known to help with digestion.

[albertoceraw]

I have had similar experiences with fruit. When I began experimenting with raw food, I ate a lot of fruit and some vegetables. However I was always bloated and hungry which I take were signs that I wasn't digesting food appropriately. I also had that feeling that my stomach would just not empty out.  If your gut is damaged, unless you remove the troublesome foods, you won't be getting much nutrition. It also depends a lot on the type of fruit you eat and if you have blood sugar problems. Oranges tend to raise a lot my blood sugar, leaving me anxious and very hungry.

Eventually what helped me was going low carb/ ketosis. I'd recommend to go low carb first, since ketosis sometimes requires  more experimentation and research.

[fireflysea]

Firefly, as I mentioned I. Another post, it seems you are underweight, even at 115 that is likely the lowest you should ever be at your height without compromising your healh.  I know those pounds do not feel the se when they are from rapid weight gain so bear with them as you stabilize your diet.

How is your menstral cycle/fertility/hormones?  I think women who have been very thin start binging due to lower sex hormone production.  Simply, the body uses fat to store vital hormones, when you are too low on fat for too long and he body starts to lower hormone production, which seems common in the 20's and 30's for women who have had health issues, the body will tend to retain or even add fat if necessary, to try and keep hormone production high.  If you don't honor this and are continually tryi g to lower weigt below the bodies needs it will tend to cause binging and restricting that lead to ill health.  The endocrine system is so important for proper health.

It is good you aren't pushing exercise on yourself, rest and relaxation and moderate exercise are great.  Swimming is a good hot humid recreation that you might consider though, stretching and relaxing in cold water has been the most fun for me when it gets over 100 degrees here!

I would suggest you switch up what meats/proteins/fats you are eating, try fish, try dairy and oysters.  Eat a leafy green and herb salad with vinegar and seaweed instead of fruit and see if it helps to curb your cravings.  Raw dairy is amazing for skin and hormonal health, i hink its especially good for women, do you have access to raw milk???

Remember that later summer is when fruit is ripe, find what's local, like berries or melons and go harvest them yourself, you will probably end up eating less, plus fresh, wild and local is generally better quality.  Wild berries also have higher pectin, which helps to flush out toxins from the intestines.

Do you eat any fermented/ aged foods?  Do you do well with spices foods?  Making and eating small portions of sauerkraut or kimchi has been known to help with digestion.

Thanks so much Jessica! I've always been super thin. I actually am about 119 lbs now (10 lbs gained in 9 days, and so much pain in my abdomen and exhaustion/fatigue that I don't have when I eat less). This is very high for me. Prior to starting to binge on and off, I naturally maintained about 95-100 lbs but then lost weight to about 72 lbs while traveling for unknown reasons. It was at 72 lbs that I felt unhealthy and my on and off foray with binge eating began back then. Of course at the time I was eating tons of fruit thinking I was healthy but it probably just really messed with my blood sugar. That was 3 years ago. At 95-100 lbs I had a healthy menstrual cycle and all my blood work etc was monitored often and very healthy. Once I started bingeing I developed very painful periods, acne, and a vast array of health problems. I stopped and after 4 months of eating far far less food, my health problems had begun to clear up and I'd been feeling SO much better and could think clearly and be social again. The past 10 days bingeing for me have not only increased my weight to something that feels uncomfortable and unhealthy for me, but have also left me feeling exhausted, depressed, anti-social, unable to communicate with others, and all the things I had begun to overcome while eating better. When I first started eating animal products on raw it was seafood only. About two weeks ago I tried red meat for the first time and I think thats part of why I've been kind of obsessed with it. One day I even ate 2.5 lbs of it which is utterly ridiculous and pitiful and awful I know. >.<

Anyway, for my frame even my doctor said my body is healthy at 103 lbs (Idk why she specified 103 lolol, but around there) so I think it would be fine for me to lose some weight and actually I feel far healthier, more vibrant, more energetic, more outgoing when I do. My menstrual cycle is healthy as is all my blood work. But in the hospital they did say I was almost anemic (may be why I started going for the red meat). But regardless I'm now very inflamed and up to 119 lbs. I am going to stop with the red meat for a while and focus on re-hydrating my system. I'm thinking lots of liquids---raw coconut water, green juice, lemon water, cold brewed herbal teas, kombucha, etc----plus fats and seafood. I have not been craving seafood at all which is why I've been going for red meat and avocado. I LOVE fruit and veg but Fiber irritates my colon a lot. I was just in the hospital due to an inflamed colon and small intestine and a bacterial infection in my digestive tract. I really don't know what to do. Not eating fruit limits my food intake a bit, I can eat vegetables but they hurt my digestion and bloat me, so does meat really. It really doesn't leave much for me to eat. When I eat fruit I do eat a lot of local seasonal fruit but I live in sort of a more tropical climate so there is mamey sapote, dragonfruit, melon, berries, bananas, and pretty much everything. The grass fed beef is from the next state over but the lamb is from Australia. Farm raised frozen ground venison is available (sustainably farmed and not grain fed, I've looked into it!) . Other than that there are no other meats available except seafood which is decent quality.

Seaweed is one of my favorites, especially dulse. I am all out and have to buy more next time I can. But I eat it pretty regularly. I also eat raw fermented vegetables (mostly sauerkraut), kombucha, and kevita. The fermented veg are much better on my system than fruit, that is for sure, and I used to eat it instead of fruit whenever I craved fruit and was avoiding it just before the bingeing. It was once I decided to start incorporating as much fruit as I wanted into my diet, plus started incorporating red meat, that the bingeing craziness. Unfortaunately I react really poorly to dairy.  I wish it weren't so. When I was a child I LOVED yogurt and cottage cheese, they were some of my fav foods. I've tried them raw. The only local raw dairy available is mostly grass fed with some local grain feed to supplement. There is also local goat dairy but they eat grain feed. At one point I did a 5 day raw milk fast but I was visiting family in Maine in the summer and the cows were entirely grass fed from this amazing biodynamic farm! The milk was incredible and I watered it down a lot when I drank it. by the end of the 5 days I felt ok! Anyway though dairy makes me very tired and swollen. I think I am finding beef does the same thing. As with fruit. Pretty soon I'll be living off red reishi tonics and water and that obviously can't last very long lololol. UGH

Though I guess if I stick to liquids and fermented vegetables and seaweed with seafood every other day then I'll be ok. Its just hard to stick to long term, though when I did it for a while I def felt way better than I do now

[fireflysea]

I have had similar experiences with fruit. When I began experimenting with raw food, I ate a lot of fruit and some vegetables. However I was always bloated and hungry which I take were signs that I wasn't digesting food appropriately. I also had that feeling that my stomach would just not empty out.  If your gut is damaged, unless you remove the troublesome foods, you won't be getting much nutrition. It also depends a lot on the type of fruit you eat and if you have blood sugar problems. Oranges tend to raise a lot my blood sugar, leaving me anxious and very hungry.

Eventually what helped me was going low carb/ ketosis. I'd recommend to go low carb first, since ketosis sometimes requires  more experimentation and research.

I feel like eating so much fruit for so many years (I've been raw 8 years now, some of which were mostly fruitarian, which is when I started experiencing problems) really messed me up. Like gave me blood sugar issues. I feel like eating fruit sends me off on a blood sugar roller coaster. I love it though and it feels like it balances something I can't get from meat/seafood/veg. But maybe its just the juiciness and sweetness I love. I find it stimulates a neverending appetite for everything. Have you found the same?

What do you eat on a daily basis on a raw ketogenic diet? In the past I haven't done very well on a high fat diet. I just end up never feeling satisfied and having messed up digestion. But maybe it would be different if I did it properly.  How about raw low carb? I'd love to hear what works for you!

[jessica]

Firefly i am afraid to day but you might want to look into seeing a new doctor if he one you have seen would have you believe that 73 pounds(unless you are 10 years old) is an okay weight for a female who stands 5'5".  there is no possible way.  even at 119 you are just about at the lower spectrum of normal as an adult at that height.   when you get into lower weight with restricted dieting/excessive activity for calorie intake, you body starts to catabolize its own muscles and bone structure to keep your organs running or seeks out whatever foods will allow for rapid weight gain and also sedation.  Fruit likely stimulates your bodies ability to store calories through its ability to raise blood sugar and insulin response, which is messes art for bodies to store calories. 

I do fully understand how uncomfortable you are though and how the "weight" you have just put on could seem excessive.  It is because you are bloated up from binging and fruit and most of what you have "gained" is water weight and inflammation from excess blood sugar.   The best thing you can do is fine some moderation where you are feeling satiated but not loosing or gaining too much too rapidly.

[jessica]

This is something you will have to experiment with to figure out what is right for you.  Already you are leaning towards eliminating foods but why go so far as to fast?  perhaps a one day fast is great to give your digestion a rest but starting to experiment with moderation should be priority as having a moderate healthful diet is the goal.


You may have compromised digestion and inadequate gut bacteria to digest and assimilate all of the fat, protein and nutrients your body needs, which is why it goes for the sugar, as a survival mech to give you what little food it can.  This is why I would suggest aging meat to help it  become more digestible using the meats own enzymes and bacteria.  Also trying different cuts and offal, if you are anemic you might do well with some liver, if raw liver is not tempting try making a pate or cooking it on very low in some
Melted butter.  Fruits also contain a lot of mineral salts, which is why I suggest greens, herbs and seaweed.  It might also help to eat some veggies, whatever is in season and local, to get some of the other vitamins and minerals. 

From my experience, what helps cut down on that uncomfortable bloating is to go for quality/nutrient density vs quantity.  You want adequate calories and high mineral content, offal and seafood, fatty cuts of meat and seaweeds are your best friend in this department.  Eating smaller quantities of highly nutrient dense foods abut not restricting should help.  2000 calories a day is not excessive if you are active or have been through stress or are underweight. 

If you have been at a lower weight in you teens and early twenties and really pushed to be "lean"(which unfortunate for some, including myself, turns into emmaciation) your body is going to take a long time before it trusts your brain to make decisions about how much you can eat again.  The more you try and restrict the worse it will fight back, it's not a battle worth picking because it is lose lose until you achieve balance!  Every time you lose weight and then gain it back, instead of maintaining a healthful medium, it puts your body through some metabolic stress.  There is a way to gain weight healthfully in which you add muscles, strength to all systems and a little fat, if you add this without causing undo stress and through good diet you will most likely come out with a much better figure, good hair, skin, bones, happy organs, well fed brain.

[jessica]

I always suggest women to read paleoforwomen.com she goes through a lot of the same issues as many young women have here, although she doesn't advocate raw paleo she does a great job of delving into binging and restricting, body image issues and all health issues that go along with those things.

[JJ]

Hello, I'm new 

I basically want to learn more about raw paleo, although I don't label myself if I can avoid it.  I am a shameless stealer of ideas as long as it helps my health.  If that's okay with your guys and gals, then I'll hang out for a while. 

I can relate to this thread since I was a vegan, also a raw vegan for almost 10 years until my health collapsed.  I have a collection of youtube video links from other vegans who experienced the same collapse I did so I couldn't be more pro-meat if I went through a brainwashing program, LOL.  I've been lurking here but it was this message that made me want to post for the first time. 

One of the things that happened to me was the destruction of my gut flora from the practice of fasting.  Fasting isn't "bad" but you have to be aware of what you're doing to the flora if you do it for longer than a day or so.  I was very good at fasting.  I could go 10 days or longer with just water.  My flora was DEAD at the end of that time.  Especially since I combined it with (TMI alert!!!)  either enemas or cathartic herbs to get the goop out of my guts.  I didn't do the Master Cleanse, I had plenty of other options.  I should say that I'm not a spring chicken so I had plenty of time to learn all the tricks. 

It can seem like fasting improves the situation because the bloating goes away and the pain stops. But some of the flora, especially those that break down cellulose are quickly starved out.  More quickly than the tougher archaea.  I got to a point where I was chewing for ages just so vegetables wouldn't come out mostly whole at the "other end."  So what I did was to add fermented foods to my diet.  Not just yogurt/kefir types of things, but fermented vegetables, kombucha, anything that had living germs, I ate it.  I guess that's raw, isn't it?  I also ate grapes which apparently have a lot of germs on their skins.  With grapes, I was looking for a natural alternative to the purified "saccahromycetes boulardii" which is sold as a supplement. 

To make a long story short, this fixed the problem.  But I had a lot of stinky gas when it started.  Then the new balance was reached and I am now fine.  It took only 3 days for the balance to be reached for me, but I don't know how it will affect anyone else, so if you try this, use caution.   My ancestry is Eastern Europe, so maybe it worked because I'm adapted genetically to eating sauerkraut, etc?  But I suspect that the germs we need to break down veggies are in ferments of veggies, not in ferments of milk.  Just my opinion.

Are there ferments of fruit?  That aren't wines?   

[albertoceraw]

There's two things that might be helpful for you to consider if going high fat:

1) Have you done liver flushes? If your liver is impaired high fat might be very difficult to maintain.

2) Try to experiment with different fats. It's very important to find a good source of animal fats. Not all of them might agree with you. For example, I can't digest  suet at all, and eating too much bone marrow makes me nauseous.


Doing ketosis successfully took me many tries, but above all, what mattered most was getting quality animal fats. What I got wasn't optimal but good enough. On a daily basis I  eat maybe 1/2 kg of beef and 300g of bacon. That's my mainstay. However, I usually add  at least some of the following every day: honey, liver, eggs, avocado, and recently, some nuts, seeds or peanuts. I have 30 to 50 g of carbs.

When low carb I basically just eat 4 to 6 bananas ( because along avocado is the only fruits I can digest) depending on energy expenditure. Basically 100 to 150 g of carbs.
 

Yes, I find the same thing. When I have upped my fiber intake, I tend to start binging too, and my energy and mental focus go to the ground, even if what I eat feels delicious and nourishing. However one has to be very weary of instinctive eating...

After reducing my intake I also feel  hungry and not satiated for a while, but after a week I start feeling normal again.

Since I have similar problems to the ones you describe I would strongly suggest you to lower your fiber, up your fats (try to experiment a bit) and consider liver flushes (if you haven't already). Ketosis is a big commitment, and in my case IT has taken a lot of time to get right, however it has been what gives me the best results as of now. In your case I think it would be better to go for low carb first. 

I hope this helps you, I remember what It feels being always bloated...


JJ, thanks for your post! do you think you could share a more detailed story of what you did in order to heal? It would interest me enormously! since I can't even digest papaya without it  come out mostly whole at the "other end". I think fireflysea would also be interested.

In Sally Fallons book Nourishing traditions there are recipes for fermenting fruit. However, they require whey, and have to be refrigerated. They wont go farther than 2 months even refrigerated.
 

[Inger]

You need to eat plenty of DHA from raw seafood when you want the ketogenic way to work right, especially if your health is broken.

Read this blog "WHY KETOSIS APPEARS TO FAIL SOME?" by neurosurgeon Jack Kruse  for more info

http://jackkruse.com/organization-structural-failure-10-ketosis-appears-fail/

[Cristaraw]

Slaves of the past (including America) were not allowed to eat meat. They were put on vegan or vegetarian diets. Slave owners remarked that this diet made the slaves just strong enough to work, but too weak to run away. Smart enough to obey but not bright enough to make long-term plans.

Willie lynch (who also made a speech on how to create a slave) wrote at length about what you should feed a slave and why.

There is a reason Watermelon is associated with blacks in the U.S ... It was part of the slave diet.

Here is an interesting (but not completely related) part...

"Therefore, if you break the FEMALE mother, she will BREAK the offspring in its early years of development; and when the offspring is old enough to work, she will deliver it up to you,
for her normal female protective tendencies will have been lost in the original breaking process." -Willie Lynch

That's still at work today in modern society and that's why in less developed countries there is so much feigned concern with "Educating girls" when they really mean BREAK them and then they deliver the next generation into their system to pay taxes without question.

(P.S yes I know some consider it to be a hoax, but, the Lynch manual is not the only slave manual in existence and it's pretty much the same story in each one.)