frozen foods safety

[invisible]

I read a link on this webstie about the damage done by freezing food, I always eat muscle meat fresh however I can only get grass fed calves/lambs liver frozen. It is still ok to eat raw despite being frozen?

[TylerDurden]

I've only come across 1 or 2 people who've had definite issues with eating prefrozen meats. Freezing damages the cell-walls, thus speeding up the loss of nutrients once the meat is thawed(so eat meats quickly once you've thawed them out), it also harms the structure of enzymes a little, but doesn't destroy them like cooking does(I've heard a(n unsubstantiated) claim by 1 RAFer that freezing meats for more than 10 weeks destroys all enzymes-content over time.


For me, the chief criterion is that freezing , due to its destruction of the cell-walls, reduces the taste of the meats by a certain amount. So I avoid it, when possible. I have no choice with buying prefrozen suet and marrow, but don't mind that as I've been told by RAFers that animal fats are much less affected by freezing than muscle-meats.

So, keep on looking out for raw nonfrozen alternatives, but it's OK to eat the liver prefrozen for now.

[invisible]

thanks for the reply

[Satya]

Freezing damages the cell-walls, thus speeding up the loss of nutrients once the meat is thawed(so eat meats quickly once you've thawed them out), it also harms the structure of enzymes a little, but doesn't destroy them like cooking does(I've heard a(n unsubstantiated) claim by 1 RAFer that freezing meats for more than 10 weeks destroys all enzymes-content over time.

Minor point: plants have cell walls, animals have cell membranes.  Cell membranes, being more delicate, are more likely to be damaged by freezing. 

Still, during the Paleolithic, with temperatures being much colder than today, with ice covering much more of the continents than now, frozen animal foods would have been eaten with some regularity.  This can be seen with more modern Inuit eating frozen fish and the like. 

[wodgina]

theres no need to eat frozen meat in Oz. Where abouts are you?

[invisible]

yeah I found I don't have to eat it frozen. It gets shipped to a butcher every couple of weeks and if not sold after a few days is then frozen so I now purchase it fresh the day it comes in.

[invisible]

theres no need to eat frozen meat in Oz. Where abouts are you?

where do you get grass fed fresh organ meats? I'm in sydney, I tried some frozen heart, didn't taste good at all. Apart from liver I don't think I will eat any organ meat until I can get it fresh Fresh will probably taste better correct?

[Guittarman03]

What do you guys think about Aajonus claim that freezing destroys proteins and makes them less utilizable/absorbable?  Also, with regards to cell walls, is there any elasticisty involved that could cause them not to burst? 

For me the option is either to get grassfed but frozen meat, or fresh, but grainfed.  I can order suet and bone marrow from slankers, but they were unwilling to sell me those unless I also bought some other stuff. 

I've never really had any problems on grainfed meat, just like others have never had a problem on frozen, but what is seems to come down to is this:  Is eating previously frozen meat more or less harmful than eating grainfed, but fresh?   

[goodsamaritan]

What do you guys think about Aajonus claim that freezing destroys proteins and makes them less utilizable/absorbable?  Also, with regards to cell walls, is there any elasticisty involved that could cause them not to burst? 

For me the option is either to get grassfed but frozen meat, or fresh, but grainfed.  I can order suet and bone marrow from slankers, but they were unwilling to sell me those unless I also bought some other stuff. 

I've never really had any problems on grainfed meat, just like others have never had a problem on frozen, but what is seems to come down to is this:  Is eating previously frozen meat more or less harmful than eating grainfed, but fresh?   

Frozen meat is inferior to freshly killed meat.

Last night our dinner was grass fed strip loin beef freshly killed... I was advertising it to the kids... one of my kids wanted it seared at the hot plate... I insisted that we did not need to sear such wonderfully freshly killed bloody steak because the taste is just awesome.

Of course how often do people have access to meat killed the same day?  Not many.  So there will have to be compromises.

[TylerDurden]

I've never really had any problems on grainfed meat, just like others have never had a problem on frozen, but what is seems to come down to is this:  Is eating previously frozen meat more or less harmful than eating grainfed, but fresh?  

Always go for the frozen, grassfed meat instead of the raw, grainfed meats. Freezing does harm the cell-walls, thus lowering nutrient content and taste, and so  it's advisable to eat it all as soon as it's thawed. Freezing also slightly denatures the structure of enzymes(I've heard 1 unsubstantiated claim by a RAFer that enzymes get completely destroyed by freezing after c.10 weeks of being frozen?). But, all in all, freezing does nowhere near the damage that cooking does.

[Satya]

Always go for the frozen, grassfed meat instead of the raw, grainfed meats. Freezing does harm the cell-walls, thus lowering nutrient content and taste, and so  it's advisable to eat it all as soon as it's thawed. Freezing also slightly denatures the structure of enzymes(I've heard 1 unsubstantiated claim by a RAFer that enzymes get completely destroyed by freezing after c.10 weeks of being frozen?). But, all in all, freezing does nowhere near the damage that cooking does.

I completely agree to choose frozen grassfed over fresh grainfed beef.  The fatty acid profiles will be very different.  You get more omega 3s per omega 6s and conjugated linoleic acid too.  The CLA is completely destroyed by any grain feeding/finishing of beef.

Again, I think cell wall refers to plant cells, animal cells have membranes.  Concerning the freezing of vacuum sealed meat:

http://www.allbusiness.com/wholesale-trade/merchant-wholesalers-nondurable/570796-1.html
Burton Lundquist, food-packaging consultant for the National Cattlemen's Beef Association, and former director of packaging for Armour Food Co., Scottsdale, Ariz., describes the impact of freeze/thaw cycles on fresh meat using various types of packaging. First off, freezer temperatures go through defrost cycles, which change the relative humidity in the package. Freezer burn, or dehydration occurs when there is excessive moisture loss. In this case, the meat may not only have a poor texture, but a grayish color. Severe freezer burn may lead to oxidative rancidity, causing a bitter, rancid flavor.

Additionally, slow-freezing meat damages muscle tissue because of the formation of large ice crystals, resulting in drip loss during thawing, producing an unappealing package for consumers.

"To prevent freezer burn, you must have intimate contact of the barrier film with the meat," says Lundquist, who had conducted an experiment comparing fresh meat packaged and stored for 24 months in cellophane wrap, vacuum sealed polyethylene bags, heat shrinkable polyvinylidene chloride copolymer (e.g., Cryovac) and vacuum-sealed pouches made of saran-coated cellophane plus polyethylene. The cellophane packages showed the most freezer burn, while the heat shrinkable saran and the vacuum package showed little or no freezer burn. Vacuum sealed polyethylene bags were significantly better than cellophane wrap.

Lundquist also packaged frozen meat, repeating the same variables as above. He found that the meat packaged fresh and then frozen had better shelf life, better color stability and exhibited less freezer burn than that frozen prior to packaging. "If you freeze the meat first and then package it, you will not get intimate contact," he says.

[wodgina]

where do you get grass fed fresh organ meats? I'm in sydney, I tried some frozen heart, didn't taste good at all. Apart from liver I don't think I will eat any organ meat until I can get it fresh Fresh will probably taste better correct?

I live in Perth and get them from a local farmer. I've got a few choices. I don't know how long you've been looking but the longer you eat like this the more options you start to see.
I don't know much about getting meat in Sydney but I would say it would be a great place for GF meat, you've got a fair few WAP people over plus you've got a huge area to choose from say Byron bay to Wollongong an easy drive from Sydney so there must be heaps of farms producing grass fed beef, just keep looking and you will find.

Don't worry about frozen foods that much although fresh is slightly better. I freeze ALL my suet.

[Guittarman03]

I understand that the fatty acid profiles will be different and more beneficial for frozen grassfed over fresh grainfed, which is why I'm buying plenty of suet and bone marrow. 

My main concern though is about the proteins.  I don't cook my meat b/c it denatures proteins and is less useable by the body.  From what Aajonus says, it sounds like there is about a 30% loss when you freeze proteins.  That is a big concern for me, b/c it has the potential to affect recovery time and physical potential.  I notice a definite difference on rare cooked vs completely raw with regards to physical energy and strength. 

I can always supplement fresh lean grainfed beef with fat from grassfed to get plenty of good fats.

Thoughts?  Specifically re the effects of freezing on protein. 

[Satya]

My main concern though is about the proteins.  I don't cook my meat b/c it denatures proteins and is less useable by the body.  From what Aajonus says, it sounds like there is about a 30% loss when you freeze proteins.  That is a big concern for me, b/c it has the potential to affect recovery time and physical potential.  I notice a definite difference on rare cooked vs completely raw with regards to physical energy and strength. 

I can always supplement fresh lean grainfed beef with fat from grassfed to get plenty of good fats.

Thoughts?  Specifically re the effects of freezing on protein. 

The burden of proof is on he who makes the claims.  Personally, I don't give a whole lot of credence to the sermons of Aajonus, but as such, I may be "out of the loop" in terms of his thinking.  But he is just one person and unless he can show evidence for this particular claim of 30% protein loss, I sure wouldn't swallow it hook, line and sinker.  If I were you, I would experiment with it.  Pick a good week when your physical requirements are not extremely taxing.  Get the grassfed beef.  Try and get it frozen very recently - like a week or 2; one month max.  Try it out for a week and see if there is a difference.

You'll notice that many people into RPD, RAF, or RVAF have done extensive experiments on themselves.  We are all individuals.  Some can thrive zero carb, some not.  Perhaps freezing is the same way.  Some can handle properly vacuum sealed frozen meat, others are more delicate and need it super fresh. 

For me, I want an animal raised in the best possible environment, and grain fed meat is generally feedlot beef, isolated in indoor concrete stalls with all the diseases that go along with close quarters.  I also believe that in the Paleolithic, so much of the planet was covered by ice off and on, that we must have adapted to eating a certain proportion of our meat frozen.  Shoot, it's a great preservation method on the plains in an ice age, ain't it?

[TylerDurden]

I agree. I don't see much evidence for Aajonus' assertion re the 30% figure. I would agree that there is an increasing  loss of nutrients once prefrozen meat is thawed(meaning one should eat it immediately after thawing) and there is the question of taste(though nonfrozen grainfed meat tastes worse, IMHO), but so few rawpalaeos have noticed any actual decrease in health from eating prefrozen meats that I don't think it's a problem.